Xpost:Please help me understand~success, m/c discussed and FET que. & worries

(17 posts)(9 voices)
  1. Success, m/c, loss, and hell.., everything but the kitchen sink discussed as I try to keep my head screwed on a bit.

    I am hoping to get some input from those who have some.

    My questions are a bit ill-formed still, as I am still grieving, yet I need to start to pool some questions/answers together for my own peace of mind.

    This weekend at 12 weeks, I learned we had a missed miscarriage of identicals that stopped growing at 8 weeks from IVF#3- 2, 2dt (ICSI,AH). Im 37 and we are MF due to failed vasectomy reversal.

    Can anyone help me to understand what the likilhood that a FET from same batch that I had a m/c from, will also have chromosomal issues, if in fact, that was issue. In phonecall, RE feels twins didnt seperate properly and expressed how rare it would be that they would have implanted if it was the reason; we wont talk at length abt this cycle until we set up next consult.

    Anyone w/ successes of a FET batch when a m/c occurred with fresh?

    I have never done a FET before and not knowing what to expect has me unsure what to ask. I have read, and re-read the FET threads. But I have a lot of fears that are messing up logic for me right now. Hope is getting lost in my fears and worry thoughts.

    I dont think this clinic is specialized to do PGD, let alone, on FET?? Not even sure if this would tell us anything other than not good/good embryos, but still cant tell us if they would implant so...(not sure how to follow this thought).

    I thank you in advance. You ladies have a wealth of experience and knowledge that has gotten me through these past few years, and I am really looking forward to help getting some wisdom that can get me past these next weeks as I heal and try to look forward to some FET hope still.

    Peace, Jenny

  2. I'm sorry for your loss. I do know that people who miscarry get pregnant on FET cycles from the same batch all the time. Just because 1 embryo from that cycle had a chromosomal issue doesn't mean they all will. Good luck!

  3. I'm so sorry for your loss. My heart breaks for you....

    I had a fresh cycle and didn't have success. In 2008, I used the rest of the frozen from the same batch and found success. It was the only success I've ever experienced in the entire 10 years of TTC#1, which consisted of timed intercourse, countless clomid cycles, IUIs, 11 fresh IVFs and 5 FETs. Success from FETs can and does happen.

  4. c_ayres~ Thank You for taking the time to share your understanding on others who have moved on to success. It helps me keep that glimmer of hope going.

    JayJay~ I am so sorry for your own 10 long years of this "process" (to keep it polite ). I cant not tell you how much it means to wake up this morning after laying here stressing out about the unknowns and worries all night, to read your and c_ayres words. Thank you for sharing your experience.

    Is there anyway to weed out FE? So if mine are frozen on day 2..., would trying to grow some out to 5 day make a difference?
    Or is it all a **** shoot and we leave it up to the embryologist and pray

  5. pgs ,m/cs ,discussed

    jenny,

    hello, old friend, i am so sorry for the loss of your twins.

    we go to the same re, i can tell you they are very very against going to day 5. I am coming up on a de fet, that i practically insisted they take my remaining 9 2 day embies ( so far, pregnancy of twins on the fresh,9 (not mine) 2 transferred day 2) a fet where 3 were transferred, bfn, a fet where 4 thawed, one arrested and 3 transferred, bfn. they refused to take the last 9 to blast, b/c they feel so strongly that back in the uterus gives the best chance for pregnancy.

    how many do you have left? do you know the quality ( grade and cell #)?

    i know there are many, many, examples on the boards of m/cs on the fresh and subsequent pgs. i think your previous success is a great indicator for this batch of embies- best of luck to you, and a big hug from me.

  6. A few times during my h3ll of cycling, my embies were taken to day5 and even day6 for transfer and I had BFN. For the most part, I've transferred 3 day embies.

    I don't believe in taking them to 5/6days to "weed" out the unhealthy embies. My BFF also had numerous IVFs. She and her DH had many problems (she has PCOS, thyroid problems and other things, while his sperm wasn't moving at all) and they produced awful looking embies - low grade and highly fragmented. YET they have 3 healthy children. The last IVF she did, the embies were so bad having 2-6 cells and were very fragmented and she ended up having twins from that batch - a 3day transfer). I highly doubt that those embies would've made it to day5/6. I truly believe that finding the golden egg is a cra.p shoot. Heck even CGH cannot guarantee you of transferring a chromosomally normal embie. There's a woman here whose post I came accross and she had a normally CGH tested embies that were transferred. She got pg and later m/c only to find out that the embie was chromosomally abnormal.

  7. A few times during my h3ll of cycling, my embies were taken to day5 and even day6 for transfer and I had BFN. For the most part, I've transferred 3 day embies. I don't believe in taking them to 5/6days to "weed" out the unhealthy embies. My BFF also had numerous IVFs. She and her DH had many problems (she has PCOS, thyroid problems and other things, while his sperm wasn't moving at all) and they produced awful looking embies - low grade and highly fragmented. YET they have 3 healthy children. The last IVF she did, the embies were so bad having 2-6 cells and were very fragmented and she ended up having twins from that batch - a 3day transfer). I highly doubt that those embies would've made it to day5/6. I truly believe that finding the golden egg is a cra.p shoot. Heck even CGH cannot guarantee you of transferring a chromosomally normal embie. There's a woman here whose post I came accross and she had a normally CGH tested embies that were transferred. She got pg and later m/c only to find out that the embie was chromosomally abnormal.

    isn\'t it just amazing, how random it actually seems? thank you for your post, my remaining embies are not the cream of of the crop, so to speak, and your post gives me hope!

  8. Violet~ first, after you have gone through as much as you have, I am grateful and touched you reached out to me at this time and offer such warmth~ but given past chats, I am not surprised as you are one of the most caring and tough woman I have met on this board (and there are quite of few here ). It really means a lot to me, and I had been tossing back n forth whether I might PM you, but didnt know if I should on this subject. Thank you again dear friend. I have to also offer my hope and prayers as you enter into your next FET. When will that come up? I do have 17 frozen~ given our hx this was a huge surprise and delight. With all the comments I have gotten, makes me hopefilled & excited to move forward at some point. I have no clue abt quality or cell count. I have never done a FET and feel a bit naive~ I never even asked our clinic if they vitrify or slow freeze? Do you know? Do you use Y or D? I have been mainly w Y and have some mixed feelings abt his bedside~ but all in all its been a good experience and they must be doing something right~ hope it spills over to me on this next gamble.

    JayJay~ I have read your responses to others over the years, and have always been so amazed at the level of insight you have and share so willingly. I am grateful you are sharing what you have learned with me. Has me more calmed abt letting the RE follow therir program and determine when they feel the FET will happen and at what day with the emryos. Thank you for the information to assist in my forming my opinion on this matter. I am truely grateful. I will add that my 1st IVF was a surprise to even my RE that my 3, 3dt resulted in my Dd (who turned 2 in dec.). No frosties as 3 was all we got to fert out of 18 eggs, and the quality~ well, one of those stories that goes to show you never know unless u try.

    Since Its a **** shoot no matter what, at least allowing myself to take this perspective at this hour and at this moment, gives me an ability to give myself a mental break for a tad and just get past this loss w/o taking on anymore stress and worry abt the future for now. Thanks ladies. xxx

    Best to you all.

  9. Jenny- i am very sorry for your loss of twins- i understand your feelings of devistation and despair. I was pregnant with twins last year- they both died right before 9 weeks- within days of each other. I did all of the testing to rule out any kind of immune issues, m/c panel etc- the only thing we came up with was i have heterozygous MTHFR ( just require high dose folic acid) and i have diminished ovarian reserve- so the docs just blamed it on "chromosome issues" who knows- i m/c at home- so did not collect tissue to do karyotype

    We also did ivf for MFI- but ours is severe low sperm count, sperm can't move right, shaped wrong everything- so we also do ICSI and AH- as with age my eggs have thickened.

    I was devistated- angry- confused- so afraid of doing another IVF b/c i was so afraid of the same thing happening to me. So i understand your fear of the FET.

    Unfortunately it seems the loss of twins around the 8/9 week happens to many IVFr's and i don't know why- but usually- when i read someone's story it is around this time if it is going to happen in the first trimester- it sucks horribly- and i wish i could take away your pain- i know it deeply.

    i cannot offer you advice in reguards to the FET- b/c we have never had anything make it past day 3

    PREVIOUS PG/Child/Success mentioned
    Our story seems somewhat similar- we had success with our first ivf (me 30, dh 37). But with our first ivf we only had 3 good embryo's on day 3- i transferred 2- and got ds. I waited until DS was almost 2 before starting the journey again.

    This journey started with a horrible cycle- canceled on day of trigger due to poor response on max dose drugs-i was befuddled.

    January 2009- IVF- only 6 eggs on max dose- only 3 decent embryo's on day 3- transferred all 3- twins- both dead in march.Then i was diagnosed with low AMH- DOR ( diminished ovarian reserve) and basically told cold day in h-e-l-l to have another child.

    July IVF- bigger better clinic- only 3 mature eggs- donor sperm- BFN

    October- last WTF cycle- just for kicks and giggles b/c our chances were less than 13%- transferred 3 good embryo's on day 3- AGAIN nothing else survived- CURRENTLY almost 19 weeks with singleton- that appears healthy and normal. The only thing different was i did decadron ( 2 mg/day from prior to cycle thru 12 weeks- baby aspirin every day- still taking- and the high dose folic acid)- and of course progesterone thru week 12.

    I didn't know how to continue on- but all i knew was that i wanted to have another child- and i wasn't ready to give up- i grieved, i researched, i was even on the wait for donor egg- but thought- might as well try one more time. WITH all of your frozens' there HAS to be some good ones in the bunch. It doesn't mean a m/c can't happen again- it sucks, and is unfair, and it can. But i think if you just do your best in preparing yourself for whatever happens- HOPEFULLY you will find that golden embryo.

    I just told myself everyday- to get past this day- i prepared myself constantly for something bad- maybe not a great way to be- but very gun shy- which is just a drop in the bucket compared to some of our fellow ivfr's. But it was all i could do- cautiously optimistic- scared like crazy- and i still am.

    I hope it helps somewhat- i know the happy ending doesn't occur for everyone- so no B.S. baby ****, hot air blowing here. But you aren't alone- and something good CAN happen.

    Jen

  10. jenny, its my pleasure, I certainly have been in the place of loss and disappointment, and i am very fortunate that (literally) years later, I have processed the grief to the point that i can truly try to be there for others, and any comfort or advice i can give you, i am thrilled to be able to do it. pm me anytime, and i can give you my email address ..

    now, with 17 embryos, i think you are in fantastic shape- however, with our clinic doing 2 day embies ( which COULD possibly save some embies from demise in the dish, but who knows) it also means, without question, more transfers, more money. i am doing a donor cycle, and there were originally 18 embies- the original couple transferred ( i think 2, maybe 3) and got twins. then another couple adopted them , thawed and transferred 3, bfn. that couple re-donated, i adopted, thawed 4, transferred 3, bfn. so far, out of 9-10 embryos transferred on day 2, 2 have become bbabies. i tried to talk them into taking the reamaining 9 to blast, but they are dead set against it and actually told me they would only do 2 day transfers, but are giving me 50% off per cycle, so it costs me the same or less than one blast transfer. that tells me they truly believe 2 day transfers offer ALL of the embryos the best chance.

    i think your loss was random, or just as dr. y suggested ( i see both and love them both, dr. d is more social though, for sure). i simply cannot, cannot imagine out of 17 embies, with a pg on the fresh, prior success, and your relatively young age that you wont have AT LEAST one pg out of this batch.

    my best advice would be to listen to their guidance, do a fet and transfer 3-4 on d2, depending on the quality. i wouldnt transfer 4 4-cell grade ones, but they won't all be that- i plan to transfer 3-4, b/c the quality is average.)

    please pm me and we can talk more. i will be there next weekend for transfer, and i am happy to talk to you anytime. remember - you are in excellent hands.

  11. Jenny: hi! I have a friend on here who had a similar thing happen to her...she miscarried around the same time as you and hers were ID twins too. The dr felt it was because of when and how the twins split for the reason of the m/c...she did have frosties from that cycle and she did a FET and is pregnant now with twins again but not ID twins and all is progressing well. Please dont give up hope. I sent my friend a pm and asked her to share her story with you as hers is very similar to yours. Hang in there sweetie!

  12. Hey Jenny I just sent you a private message.

  13. No problem jenny! I know that we post/hang around these boards to cling onto something that can possibly give us hope. If sharing my story could help someone decide on the next path to take, then I'm glad!

    isn\'t it just amazing, how random it actually seems? thank you for your post, my remaining embies are not the cream of of the crop, so to speak, and your post gives me hope!
    It really is! I want to add that I did the EMET (embryo marker expression test) when I was cycling at SIRM b/c NO ONE had any idea why nothing was implanting (I was unexplained then). Most of my embies that were tested, tested very high, like in the 80s and 90s which meant that they were highly going to implant when transferred. We transferred and BFN!

  14. Jenga~ Forgive that it has taken me so long to respond back after you took th etime to reach out to me~ I took some time to head home to be with my family and get a change of enviornment. Thank you so very much for sharig what your experience was with me; it gives me hope. And, I am so very sorry for your loss and the heartache and struggle you have gone through. Congratulations on your baby~ when is your due date? Time is helping me to see more realisticaly and clear; amazing what happens when your body is pumped full of hormones. Now looking forward to getting my hcg level down and looking forward to a plan in the next 2-3 months for FET. I appreciate the no B.S. words and reading that good CAN happen! I hope you have an uneventful pregnancy and all the best to you. xxx

    Violet! You are the best~ I plan on PM ing you soon as I do have some Q's abt our clinc and FET. xxx tahnks again. Prayers your way as your FET comes up.

    Mel~ you are so amazing esp given what full plate you have on your own. Thanks for linking me with Tinkerbella!xxx

  15. jenny- so glad you got a change of scenery and able to feel a little more ready to face the future. Hang in there. It is a tough road sometimes- but you are never truly alone- maybe IRL friends can't understand but there is always many of us who can directly relate in one way or another.

    Goodluck and hugs as you heal and move forward.
    Jen

  16. Jenny - just wanted to say that I did 3 FETs from my 1st IVF (no fresh transfer due to OHSS). It was our 3rd and last transfer from that cycle that resulted in a successful pregnancy - however, none of the other 2 transfers even resulted in a chemical - pure bfn. (Other difference is that our clinic only freezes/transfers blasts). 2nd fresh - same deal, no fresh due to OHSS. I actually over double the amount of blasts to freeze on this cycle even though I was 3 years older than the first. It took 4 FETs from that group before I was successful again. So it is possible to find that 'golden' embroyo in the batch but it does take a lot of time and $$. By our 4th FET, even though we were working w/blasts and needed to avoid a HOM pregnancy, we transferred 3 based on the 3 prior unsuccessful transfers.

    Although my RE only believes in blast transfers, he does also say that the ones that are meant to result in a pregnancy, will. You just had to find them - and that is the part that sucks.

    Best of luck!
    Nancy

  17. Thought you might find this interesting...

    fertilityauthority.com

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