IVF Pregnancy Information

1. nikkav
   
   

   hi ladies. it's been awhile. because i thought God had in fact answered my prayers which i love children, always have, never imagined myself in such a place so to say an answered prayer, would be to naturally reduce a child, gives me chills but at the same time, who ever knew i'd be in such a place with so many bad circumstances surrounding me. certainly not i.
   i just feel guilty for wanting a baby so badly and praying for God to take care of things so i wouldn't have to, it just sounds so bad, but i never would know such stress until put in these shoes. now i understand clearly and will never again pass judgement to anybody anytime. it's eas to judge if you aren't walking in someone else's shoes. Go d has opened up my eyes for sure.

   BUT like i said, it seemed I was being relieved of the stress by God, as i had hoped so it'd never come down to being my choice. i started spotting days after my prenatal appt. i was really scared, i thought i was losing both babies, and so there was just fear on my mind, not the thought of possibly still having one. i raced to the hospital. i was told one baby did not survive and i saw the one on the screen, and felt a bit sad, a loss is still a loss, and i'm a human being with a heart, but i also felt a burden come flying off of my chest, like God you knew this wasn't right for us..thank you, so i didn't have to reduce, or even think about it anymore. no cvs test, no worrying about that, or guilt, or immense fear..it was OVER. so for a week and a couple days, i lived as if i had only one baby. i saw my dr. he was sorry, but told me all else is well, and i finally felt myself connecting, after denying myself that pleasure for so long, because of this burden and fear in my heart!

   i said prayers of thanks to God, but i did grieve for the lost child, because i'm not a monster, just a wonderful person, trapped in a monstrous situation, i never expected to be in, but both me and dh were relieved, and i thought now i can grieve the loss of a baby more easilly, then if i had to have been involved in the loss, i hate to say that but you know what i'm saying, it was a peaceful time for us, and i had come to terms easilly and as i said started FINALLY bonding, which was always easy for me to do asap in pregnancy, but impossible this time, just given the situation. i had to detach myself as much as possible.

   anyhow, sorry for another long post, but time went on, and i didn't think i'd be coming back here, but to thank you all for the support you had given me along the way, and then it happened. some people would have called it a miracle, the best day of their lives, others might call it a blessing, what was meant to be, i called it a absolute heartbreak, i never expected. obviously the hospital dr was wrong.

   i had a tad of spotting again, but this time my dr office was open, and i was happy to see my baby now at every turn, because i was bonding and coming to terms with everything, after what seemed like forever. they put the probe to my belly, i looked up and immediately the dr was floored. the hospital record was quite wrong. there was two healthy babies there then, and here now, but some idiot apparently missed one. they were clear as day so we don't really know how, but my heart sunk, as my dr basically celebrated, and i smiled, but in shock, me and my hsuband were just like smiling, babling idiots. i mean how would you react, with the evidence staring you right in the face. she (my dr) has no clue, i'm thinking of reduction, and knows me and my husband and how hard we have fought for our babies and this pregnancy. i truly fear what she may think of me, but was relieved i didn't have to think about that anymore, and then this doub;e whammy.

   is God torturing me? is he wanting me badly to keep the two despite, likely a ruined marriage and living w/o necessities? what is he wanting from me? i feel completely sandbaged, and i have not shook these feelings. worse yet, i had to watch as they measured the babies, and listened to their heartbeats, heard them loudly, and strong, it KILLED ME. then i got pictures, and i sat there staring, still staring at them. i wish i had strength to fold them in half or throw them away until i see my one baby, but i don't have the strength for that. the damage has been done. it was easier by far to think about this process before this ordeal and now it's 1 million times harder for me

   my husband is being completely unrealistic and unsupportive, he doesn't talk about it, and it's all i think about, my world has been crumbling from the outside in and i have noone to turn to, cause alot of people do not know, and those who do are THRILLED! how can i turn to anybody, and my husband he should be my support. he said well we have a little time to think about all of this and talk it over, but day in and day out, i'm doing all the thinking, and he's doing no talking, so it's HORRIBLE on me. the stress is killing me, between that and losing two of my children in the last two weeks of this very month, (anniversaries, which are VERY hard on me), one yesterday (he's having no compassion there), and one next week...it's a horrible place to be in, while i'm mourning those losses to boot, i'm just BEATEN AND BROKEN.

   i hadn't made the cvs and SR consult, until the day before yesterday, because i didn't know, i was going to need them, so everything feels so rushed now. now i know more about my baby then i ever hoped to, and was forced to have the connection i had so been avoiding, after that crazy mix up.

   i just feel like i don't know how much more i can take before i have a breakdown from all of this. i really could use a friend, or two or three, because he is being worthless and unspupportive to me, i'm worried i'll lose both babies due to all of my stress. if anyone is willing to talk w/ me and how i can get thru all of this, please send me a message, cause i think i'm gonna crack soon.

   i wish i hit lotto, i wish i could change my husband's age and mentality back to where it once was, bring his personality back to me, that i fell in love with, so my marriage could be solid again, i wish i had not lost children due to problems with birth, and just so scared over a singleton birth as it is, God forbid i lost two babies, i'd never forgive myself for not reducing. if things were all so very different, maybe this situation could work out, but things are as they are. what can i do about that? i can only change my world for ME, not for anybody else and i can't predict the future, so.......????

   anyhow, as my title says, i meet with dr stone early next week for my consult and counseling. then i have the test lined up, and now all i'm praying for, is that one comes out with an abnormality, because the way my luck is going both will be normal and it will make this whole thing so much harder on me. i'm banking on it, that somehow God won't let me down. if one has a problem, i can more easilly, ethically, move forward with this. i've already had nightmares, now husband is making me feel like i'm going to for the rest of my life..what about HIM??? he's the one who brought up SR when we started all this, and i didn't want to hear of it, because i was not gonna be in such a place. i took immense precuations, and here i am anyhow. frightened and mortified, now having seen both these beautiful children, it's like a knife through the heart.

   please keep thoughts and prayers with me, cause i feel myself slipping. i've never needed support as badly as i do now.

   

3. bassal
   
   

   Wow! That is the craziest thing I've ever heard! I'm so so so sorry for the rollercoaster you've been on. It's bad enough being here, but to think you escaped, mourn the loss, move on, then to be told it's decision time again................. ! I'm glad you moved forward quickly-- you don't say how far along you are, but that was my first thought, cause time is not on your side with s/r.

   Don't let anyone make you feel bad for making a tough love decision. You have the best chance of a healthy baby if it is a singleton. That's the fact. Are twins safe? Relatively, but not always. Is a singleton guaranteed to be safe? No, but they stand a much higher chance of being so. Economics, emotions, marital/family issues.... ALL of them are appropriate to consider. You are being responsible by doing so, instead of just thinking it'll all work out "somehow". Talk to Dr. S-- she said she sees more and more women who reduce 2/1 these days, for all of the above reasons and then some.

4. nikkav
   
   

   THANKS YELLOW GIRL!! you are such a Godsend. quite a crazy situation to say the least. i was saying..OMG God, after my whole life of being let down and thinking God hasn't been hearing my prayers, he finally knew what was best and 'took care of it', so i wouldn't have to deal with it all and then..... everything just turned upside down.

   i'm only 9 1/2 weeks. i insist on the CVS first, which will be sept 1st, i'll be just turning 11 wks...that is a safe time right? they told me 7-10 days for full results. i'll be praying so hard every day for one to have something rong..i guess everyone who does cvs and is thinking of reduction, has that same secret wish. it's so much worse since i saw both heartbeats and photos and all. that was HARD, and i never expected to go thru that, so it made it worse, but reading the way you put it, it truly is a decision made out of love.

   i know people think you can just 'make it work', and maybe you CAN, but you are sacrificing a chunk of your marriage, yourself, what you are able to give to your children, there will be less and less to go around for sure, and i have a heart murmur, mitral valve prolapse, super high pulse rate..resting even, and already high BP, so i fear what the strain on my heart will do. my almost 50 yr old husband will not fare well with these children on his own. he hardly has the energy anymore to work and play with the one that he's got, it's very distressing and sad. i do EVERYHING, and i just predict myself having to do everything with 3, and i simply do NOT know how i could manage that all on my own. he works nights, so i'm up all night, never sleeping, then when he gets home, and i would need my rest, he'll be sleeping from his night of work, so what happens to me?? i'm not trying to make it all about me, me, me, but this is my vision of things..my reality so if all went PERFECT and we all ended up healthy, which is still a big IF, there is still so much else to consider, in giving children a good life. that is being real not selfish. you ant teh best for your kids, and i did do everything to prevent multiples in the 1st place some would call that meant to be, but i can't see it that way.

   i had a child for years with cerebal palsy, who had seizures, was on countless meds, in physical therapy every day, in the hospital more then he was home, it was HORRIBLE, and to think that a twin even just has a 5% higher rate of such a thing, makes me go crazy, cause i KNOW how hard that is, how i guilty i felt for sticking to my guns as a teen, not succombing to the pressure of abortion, and look at what happened to him?? !!!! abortion would have been kinder, but how could i have known?? i know that, still...i live every day with that guilt, i couldn't add more to that with another sick child, because of MY choice.

   of course once both babies were here, i'd love them, adore them, and never imagine life w/o one of them, but at the same time, there just would not be enough of us to go around, not enough money to go around, or sanity..we'd be struggling for the rest of our lives, just to get by, plus what i wanted was a sibling for my dd...it will be 'the twins' thw twins...they will have their own little world, though i do find them adorable and wish i were one in fact, she'd be left out, and she's my best friend, i cry when i think about this and HER!! one is gonna be an adjustment, but two for her..i'd hate to see her feeling sad and not getting the attention she deserves.

   God bless the dugar family and those people who can manage somehow someway, they are better then i, but in every single way this just doesn't fit, plus scarey stuff....what about the delivery. what if it's at 24 weeks?? we are talking months in the NICU, wondeing if my babies will live or die, impairments in the future, surgeries...ust awful things. i would never enjoy my pregnancy because it'd be full of constant worry. the dr already said bed rest staring in 12 weeks...WHY? there must be a reason right? he said he requests that standard on twin and up pregnancies, i'm like thinking to myself, i can't stay put when i'm sick, how can i be in bed for months, and there must be a reason why? cause 60% of twins are born preemies that is why.

   see i'm not one to stick my head in the clouds and be unrealistic. i don't fantasize about things, like a teenager does when they think they want a baby so bad to love, or like my husband who won't talk to me, isn't acting loving towards me, but said 'we can just have the two', like it's 'cute' or something, yeah it's CUTE, if you are a celebrity, have a zillion dollars, top notch medical care, and even then there are risks..i said to him 'you are living in a fanasty world..you are not thinking clearly', then i said to him when i made the appt. i read online to 'make the decision with your head, not your heart'. that speaks volumes. my heart always thinks i can take on anything. i'm a sensitive and emotional person, and i love animals and children, and i'm not a cold person by any means, and i see now, it does NOT take a cold person at all to be making this decision, someone average, you ro me, find themselves in this place they never imagined. it's not like we dont care and do this lightly, it's just that we are being real and thinking logically. if i made the decision with my heart..i couldn't do it, but i made a list and quite frankly, i have a list of about 5 things on the positive and about 50 things on the cons side. that must mean something right?

   i was so worried dr S would judge me, eventhough i KNEW from being on here, that she did it, i still wondered in the back of my mind. now i'm anxious to meet her and ask questions. it helps that she is female, cause i feel more comfortable talking with a girl about something so personal. i've been worried my entire life what other people think of me, i gotto start to shake that feeling, NOW. i think if my mom knew it was twins, she's say HECK YEAH reduce, eventhough she's religious, she has always been quite the hypocrite anyway. i don't know if i could ever trust her though, because as much as i want to talk w/ someone IRL, she has the biggest mouth, she might have a couple glasses of wine, and suddenly the whole world knows, ya know? that wouldn't be good. my dad is very practical to, but he's not very approachable to speak to. he'd look at one less child as one less person to put in his will (isn't he charming??) i really need to talk to the hubby, but he's shutting me out, and once in awhile making twin comments, that annoys me, cause is he gonna guilt trip me down the road?

   i just want to do this sooner then later, and i know i'm going to feel guilty, i know i'll shed tears, and i know i'll likely still need to grieve this baby, in order to keep myself sane, as i'm that way, i spent years of my life brushing my emotions under the rug to have them cause me to burst long term, it so isn't worth it. i hope my angel will forgive me. i ish i was never in this place, and if i could give anything i have to make this horrible situation change and go away on it's own, i would do it. i appreciate your post because it tells me again that i'm not cray and the reasons are valid and not selfish. i mean i don't ant to give my kids part of a mom, i want them to have all of me, and be able to give them things they want, and need, and not be overly stressed, and nervewracked, and like i said God forbid anything goes wrong and i have a sick child, i mean...i'd feel guilty FOREVER. it is the best way to give one child the best chance of a healthy happy life. that is so true!!

   may i ask you something, and it's not a detail i like to think about, but i'm thinking i may have to change ob offices after this all, because i assume the dr is going to find out. i mean if you reduce, it doesn't just look like a heart stopped beating, and it could be from anything, does it? i'm doubting, but i figure they likely will know, and i don't know but i did have to give them my dr's name, so i wonder if they are gonna contact him at all or send records. does anybody know of this? and what did you do after the reduction? i'm sure if it were triplets and more, the ob would be kind about it, but i have a feeling, him and the rest of his office will judge me harshly. they are all so excited..yeah cause it isn't happening to them!! its going to be a difficult situation, so i'd like to hear experiences, and advice about that if you can, anybody. greatly appreciated.

   also, did you girls take anything for the pain of the cvs and/or reduction? how long do the actual procedures take? how long should i expect to be there afterwards..the cvs and reduction?

   thank you so much. i'll be back, this board is the only support i have. every other site puts me in tears, because especially with twins, it makes me feel like everyone thinks it's soo henious and twings are so doable and how much some people would love twins, but i think that is also a fantasy. yeah i wanted 10 kids before i actually had them, when you do reality of how hard it truly is sinks in, and changes things. it does make me feel bad though, so i refuse to go back to any site again here on out.

   tthanks, shelly

5. antonia_p
   
   

   shelly - i dont really have any words of wisdom since i have never had to make the heart wrenching decision you are faced with but i just wanted you to know that i have been following your posts and i hope with all my heart that things are resolved in the most peaceful manner for you and your family. i know this cant be easy, and your anguish comes through in your posts. i just wanted you to know i am pulling for the best for you and yours.

6. robin.harbord
   
   

   Ditto what antonia_p said. I wish I had some sage advice that could help ease your suffering, but I don't. It's clear that you've looked at your situation from just about every possible angle, and that you have a plan of action, but that alone isn't soothing your uncertainty and guilt. Sharing your thoughts as you have been doing is a critical outlet; if there's someone you can talk to in person that would be even better.

   Sending you comforting thoughts... ((( )))

7. lykartem
   
   

   Don't worry about what your ob thinks. They see so many things in their day to day job. They probably have patients there who use tx as birth control and are in there a few times a year with ooops pg. Really, don't worry what they think.

   My ob was great when I "reduced" from 1 to 0 a few years ago. His nurse had done the same thing for the same reason (chromosomal abnormality) and she was so helpful to me. She shed tears right along side of me, gave me her home number so I could call her to talk, etc. It was the hardest thing in the world to do as I was 19w. I know, not the same thing as you but it was a very much wanted IVF pregnancy. We did IVF again, BFN, did it again and got BFP but that baby had 2 chromosomal abnormalities one of which is always fatal so we were doomed to miscarry at any stage of the pg. It happened at 9w.

   I posted openly on this board and everyone was so helpful & kind to me. I also posted on a parenting board and a few people said don't do it and that they would adopt the baby I didn't want. That was tough but it was just a couple of people and hundreds more supported me even though I was making a choice they would not have made. I assume none of them had ever been faced with what I was so it was easy for them to sit there and say they would never do that. Well, fine and dandy and I hope you never have to make this kind of choice. A few women emailed me and said they had done the same but didn't want to out themselves and subsequently others have sought me out when they were in the same situation.

   I'm sorry you're faced with this and I can see how troubling this is especially with your DH acting in a weird way. My DH & I decided before we even got married what we would do so when it came our way we already knew what to do. It didn't make it easy by any means. It was awful as I was much further along than you will be. I still carry her hand & foot prints in my purse and it has been over 4 years. I have not been able to look at her u/s pics or the videos of her u/s. I kept everything including her ashes so someday I can go through the memory box but not just yet.

   I have gone on to have b/b twins who are now 2. You're not looking for any info on that so I won't offer any. Each person makes the best decision they can based on the info they have at the time the decision needs to be made. If you won the lottery next year you may be kicking yourself for doing the SR but you can't possibly know what the future holds so you do what you feel is right for your family. If you continued the twin pg and ended up losing them both you would be so mad for not following your gut instinct. Do what you feel you have to.

8. Maqo
   
   

   Shelly, I happened to read your thread and felt compelled to reply. I am truly trying to understand what you are going through but it hurts me that you are willing to sacrifice your perfectly healthy baby's life because you cannot "sacrifice a chunk of your marriage, yourself, what you are able to give to your children". All your medical conditions are manageable with medications. I am a mother of 2 year old special needs twins (autism and cerebral palsy) and my DH is also 50 and tired and does not always treat me well, and I am tired because we do not have any family in our area to help or friends that we would be comfortable asking for help, and I am taking them to therapies almost every day, and we are struggling financially too. Sometimes it is so hard, I just scream. So I do believe, I can understand your difficulties. However, I am convinced that the price you want to pay is way too high. It is only twins, and there are no known chromosomal abnormalities. I know, there are many ifs, but there will always be ifs, you cannot guarantee a smooth sailing either way. I also realize that what is right for me, not necessarily is right for you but you are talking about taking your DC's life for NOT good enough reasons. I beg you, Shelly, think it well before you make this life-altering decision. God help you! Ana

9. c_ayres
   
   

   Maqo,
   If you can not be supportive DO NOT POST HERE!

10. lykartem
    
    

    Ana - why are you trolling the Selective Reduction board? To cause trouble? I think maybe you are trying to be helpful. I want to think that you are honestly trying to be helpful but this poster has weighed her pros and cons and has decided what she wants to do. Your pleadings at this point are coming across as cruel. I know that is not your intention but I have to respectfully request that you leave her alone. Surely you can see the heartache in her writings. She is not doing this willy-nilly. Whether or not you would make the same choice is of no consequence here. Thank you for your concern but this sort of help is not helpful.

11. selma_z
    
    

    Dear Shelly,
    I am so sorry you're going through this but I'm glad you have the support of these ladies. I have never experienced SR. I'm usually on one of the FL threads but was looking for an old friend and stumbled upon your post. I believe everything happens for a reason. The similarities between your life and mine are uncanny, to say the least. I'm going to simply share my experience (not my opinion) with you. Maybe it'll help you make the decision that only you can make. I can't tell you what I think you should do because I ,honestly, don't know.
    I am 39 yrs old, DH is 52 yrs old. I have 17 and 15 yr old boys from my 1st marriage who do not live with us. We have a 2 and a half yr old son, conceived through IVF and 13 month old twin girls, also conceived through IVF. Our life is INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT! We are in marriage counseling. I'm bouncing around from one antidepressant to another, desperately trying to find relief from my stress, agitation, unhappiness, hopelessness, guilt, anger, etc....
    We do not have the time we used to have for our precious, little boy nor do I have the time or mental or physical energy that my older boys desperately need from me right now. I feel SO MUCH PRESSURE ALL THE TIME! Someone ALWAYS needs something from me and it never seems to be good enough when I deliver. I do want to say that I do not feel all of these things all of the time. We do have some really precious moments as a family and I deeply love my baby girls (even though I know it doesn't sound like it). We never considered SR before we had them but, now, sometimes I wish we had. That is the first time I've ever said that to anyone. And, truth be known, I quickly jump to an opposite emotion of not being able to imagine my life without either one of them. But the work is neverending. It is so, so hard having infant twins and a toddler. There have been so many times that I wish we had counted our blessings and stopped after we had our, now, 2 yr old son. But, I also know that what does not kill you only makes you stronger and that this too shall pass. They will not always be babies and so dependent on me. In a couple years everything will be so much easier. It's the here and now that I have to get through.
    If you have any questions about specifics, I'll be glad to answer them and if you really need someone to talk to - PM me and I'll send you my phone #. I have no interest in judging you or trying to sway your decision one way or another. I will pray for you.

    Lisa

12. selma_z
    
    

    some more thoughts:

    Sometimes I am so fed up that I wish I could go to sleep and NEVER wake up. But, the next morning, when I walk into that beautiful, pink nursery and see those precious, smiling faces, I am so glad that God didn't take me seriously and actually granted me the ability to wake up. When they get to be 9 or 10 months old, twins become much more fun - not necessarily easier, but more fun. They start interacting- giggling, hugging, cuddling, fighting - and it's such a joy to watch. Sometimes I feel very special for being one of the "chosen" ones to have twins. And sometimes I have to step back, out of the chaos and remind myself that they aren't always going to be babies. They are, hopefully , going to be smart, successful, loving, nurturing women who may even choose to be mothers. One day I can tell them how hard it was - how bad I felt about myself for having some of the thoughts I had. One day I can tell them how I felt like I didn't measure up because I couldn't seem to juggle everything "other mothers" did and was still loaded with twin pregnancy fat and a jiggly belly even after they'd turned a year old. And they'll probably understand, even sympathize with me. I'll be able to tell them how terrible and LONG the pregnancy seemed and how absolutely horriffic the delivery was - (a csection due to pre-eclampsia). I'll also be able to tell them that at 35 weeks and 6 days gestation they were born perfectly healthy, DID NOT GO TO NICU and came home with me. Hopefully, one day, they won't be only my daughters, but also my friends. I'm glad I have them. Encountering your situation and giving it the thought and attention that I have has been quite therapeautic for me. Thank you for sharing your story - you just never know who you might reach out and touch when you do. Don't forget - PM me if you need to chat.

    Lisa

13. bassal
    
    

    Others have given very good thoughts here. To address your question about doctors:

    I originally was pg with triplets. Saw an OB my RE referred me to, and he was very anti- SR. He didn't come right out and say it, but I could tell from the way he was steering the conversation. I eventually told him I wanted a referal for SR, and he gave me one, reluctantly. Instead, I went to Dr. S, and when they asked for my doctor's info, I gave them my RE's info and said I was shopping around for a doctor. That didn't seem to be a problem for them. After the SR, I checked out a low-risk OB and a midwive practice, told them both about the SR matter-0f-factly, and decided to go with the midwives. Never went back to Dr. Judgmental. It is important that your providers know about the SR, but you certainly don't need to go back to your old doctor practice if you don't want to. If you reduce, you become low risk and have a wide variety of practices that can see you.

    Hope that helps.

14. lykartem
    
    

    Just checking in to see how you are doing/feeling. Please post when you are up to it. Might help to talk to strangers on the internet. You know, you can type and cry and nobody can see you.

15. nikkav
    
    

    thank you ladies. i tried posting elsewhere, and wow, i'm overflowing with emotions here, over the great amount of support and replies, thank you. i tried a couple times logging back on here, but had a little trouble. got my mind caught up in other things and didn't come back until now, when i finally went through the password retriving process, as if that was soo hard, lol. it felt like it days and weeks back.

    these really made me cry and even the one that is against the reduction, i don't hold judgement for someone sharing their side and their experience with me, it's 'real', and i do still appreciate that. it's good to hear from all sides, when you are feeling so lost.

    welp, what went down is, i had the CVS test. all went fine, i was relieved i got it, because i would have been referred to it anyhow, because one of the babies had a larger then normal NT measurement, the day of, so i'm really glad we did it. she said that can be a chromosomal thing, or a heart defect. now as sick as it sounds, i sort of was like , ok this is happening for a reason, and inside myself, i could much, much, much, much, more easilly justify the reduction if there was a problem, because i have been there, and i know how hard it is to watch a child suffer and pass, i wish that on nobody, especially the child involved, it's beyond heartbreaking, and so i thought 'ok, God has made my choice, i can deal better now', and then the preliminary tests came back, and all looked fine. then i got my full results and all seems fine there to.

    so i had the reduction set for the 10th, but we were not ready for that by then, and were still waiting on the results, the full ones. i felt happy breaking that appt, and thought, since he isn't really talking, except 'let's wait for this test', stalling, and stalling, i've been doing this on my own, admittedly been trying to read his 'signals', but they have been more one way the the other, then my own even, if that is possible, i can't make heads or tales of it, i've just been assuming, because of the stalling, he doesn't wanna reduce, but he doesn't seem too happy in raising two more kids eigther. it's a very sad and confusing place to be in.

    we went out with dd yesterday, and he was acting like he was 80. didn't wanna walk, acting tired, and grumpy, like an old man, i thought to myself. how am I GOING TO DO THIS? all 3 are going to be completely on me, he can no longer keep up or handle what he has, which is extremely dissapointing, because the man i married was not this way. he was full of life, and energy, loved kids..i feel completely sandbagged, and betrayed. that reason alone can't be my deciding factor morally, but it's hard to think about. if he's so distant now..how is it going to be? not better for sure.

    then i have my dad who i did entrust but i knew he was going to be all for it. he doesn't have a paternal bone in his entire body. he said i went in wanting 1 baby, so it's a 'mishap' of nature *this is him saying it not me*, so there should be no guilt in making it right, quote un quote, meaning, going down to one. he said with a shakey marriage already, i might as well say so long to my hubby, and how two kids is 4x's harder then 1, so he can't begin to imagine twins, and what how this would absolutely DEVESTATE dd (something i worry about ALOT), which saddens me to think about.

    he said 'is it fair to a child to be born if it isn't wanted?' i said of course i would want it, and love it to death once it's here, he kept going 'shell you are missing the point, if you didn't want two fron the start it isn't fair to the baby'. then he went on over and over about \'don't listen to any finatics out there, it's not a baby right now, it's just a bunch of cells, and embryonic tissue' which i happen to highly disagree with btw, i'm 13 wks pregnant today, it's a baby, sorry dad.

    then i told him but i have had several u/s, and have seen the babies, and heard their hb's a few times now, and how much harder that has made that choice to where i can hardly think about it, and he said put all of that aside and make the smart choice with my brain and not whatever my heart is telling me. then he spoke FOR my husband and said, i will tell you exactly what he is thinking. he wants you to reduce, but he's afraid to say that, because he knows it will come back to bite him down the line, so he's staying quiet'. i confronted hubby and said this and he said that is not true but doesn't know where he stands. i said if you were me, then, what would you do 'i don't know'. great talk hun, lol.

    ok, so you can see my dad, is 100% for it, and if he could have reduced me and my brother, i'm sure he would have. actually my mom told my hubby last week, that he actually did want her to abort my brother, and they were married and in their 20's when she got pregnant, so i can see he just does NOT like kids, he never acted like he cared for us, so his opinion gets a little shot down naturally, because he's got a complete lack of emathy period. i asked him what his girlfriend would say or do, because i'd like to talk to a female, who gets it fully, and he said \'don't worry about janice, and what she would think or do' well that answered it. she wouldn't do it.

    i tried to talk with my mom, see both my parents are extremeists, i can get noone middle of the road for me. my mom is super religious, so i should have known better, but i got desperate, and my dad, totally opposite. my mom is uncaring, and cold, but relgious non the less. i only mentioned it to her, in case something was wrong with the baby, to get her side, and she was all NO NO..you could never do that. you've faced horrible situations before and never bailed out like that' and God wouldn't have given you this if you couldn't do it, and you weren't raised like this...raised like what? (she hardly raised me), ugh. 'it's not who you are', well i don't think anyone here ever thought it would or could be part of who they are, but unfortunately, before you are in such a position, it's easy to say what you feel someone else should or should not do, and what you would or wouldn't do, a totally different story when it is you, and you and only you know your every situation, your every sorrow, and fear, your every anguish. this is no decision made easilly, but it's easier to make it when you are not smack in the situation. i never would have put myself here not in a million years. it has opened my eyes, i hold no judgement anymore, i have seen the light, and it's entirely different if you have not been here.

    as much as she preached to me, in the same breath, she told me how she has her own life now, and to not expect any help from her. isn't that precious? so i have no help for dad or mom, my mother in law still doesn't know about two, but let's just say she wasn't thrilled with one, which was a shock, so i feel like noone is rooting me on and even feeling happy for this pregnancy at all. it's very disheartening, especially since iam far from 16 yrs old or something.

    anyhow, i was certain, that if both were healthy i couldn't do this at this point. then last night i had a nightmare and woke up in a sweat with my heart racing, and two hrs later it's still beating hard. all of my dreams (which did come true with ds, mind you so thatfreaks me out), all my dreams show a bad outcome if i keep two. so how do i live with myself if i lose one or both later on, because i didn't reduce and listen to my dreams and fears? but then again it could be my subconsious, but it's very scarey none the less, and last night was a horrible dream and i lost both babies, and i haven't been able to calm myself down since, it was soo real. after losing two i couldn't bare to lose another. if i lost the both to SR i'd not be able to deal with that eigether, so i'm just stressed.

    my head today is back on the topic after seeing dh yesterday and then thinking about risks today and my fears and i just don't know, because there is no time. this is 50/50 but what do you do when the other 50 isn't talking? i know he'll say wait until the echo at week 15, but as time goes on it gets harder and harder and the risks go up.

    actually dr. s when i said about telling the dr and him being judgemental, she said i didn't have to tell, it will look like a 'loss' and that seemed easier to me, though i don't know if i have the lying bone in my body to pull that one off, it's a bit deceptive of me to fake along with that, i don't believe i could hack that.

    *sigh*

    now i'm real confused. while i'm looking at strollers, thinking of names, and now know the sexe's, it's easy to forget this whole 'reality' and sr topic, and i think i've been immersing myself in that stuff to convince myself not to do this, and i felt convinced but today, i'm having some big doubts.

    i do want all sides, don't think it will hurt me in any way, cause i have been reading online trying to get all the knoledge on twins and raising them, etc. that i can, to be prepared, so to those who have twins, i'd LOVE to hear your stories, on life with them, before and after birth and beyond. i'd appreciate that immensley. i'm so confused at this point, i feel i need all sides and all the info i can get.

    so sorry again for the huge delay in my writing. my heart and my head are having a massive tug of war here.

    thanks, shelly

16. bassal
    
    

    Wow! I'm sorry you can't seem to talk with your DH about this issue. But I think there are a few worst case scenarios, on both sides, that you should think through:

    1. If it came down to it, would you rather have the twins but lose the marriage? How would you cope with the children? Would you resent them for causing your marriage to end?
    2. If it came down to it, would you rather have the SR to save the marriage? How would that make you feel about your husband-- would you hold it against him, and casue your marriage to end regardless?
    3. If you have the SR, then lose both, would you blame your husband?
    4. If you have the twins, but they have heatlh defects from IUGR, would you blame yourself?

    Only you can answer these questions. I think #1 and #2 are key here...... because it sounds like it is the twins or your husband. Maybe not, but that's what it sounds like from your post. Course, husbands have been known to come around, adn lots of single moms make things work. Just some food for thought.

    As you know, if you don't make a decision soon, the decision will be made for you.

    GL to you!

17. sannino
    
    

    There is no right or wrong answer here Shelly - you just have to do what is right for YOU.

    I so struggled with making the decision - but once I finally made up my mind, things got easier. It helped too that the one we reduced (3 to 2) had a very large nuchal fold measurement, that - despite having normal CVS results - doctors could not assure me that there was not a heart or other problem which would not be able to be detected till much later in the pregnancy.

    Do I still feel some guilt and what ifs?? Yes - but I still believe I did what was right for me AND my family.

    I am now in my 3rd trimester with twins - and let me tell you, this pregnancy has been beyond difficult. I am heading into week 4 of total bed rest and have had a variety of problems - though right now, babies are healthy. I honestly don't think I would have been able to safely carry all 3 to term - or even have gotten as far as I have now. I had a very easy pregnancy with my DD and have been surprised at how difficult carrying 2 actually is.

    I\'m sorry you aren't getting the support you need IRL - which can only make things more difficult. You just need to do the best you can, make the right decision for yourself and try to get your husband to have some input....

    Hang in there.

18. mariacorreia
    
    

    Just a remark on the OB opinion issue: my OB is a mother of three kids, had most of them during her residency so she's survived really demanding times. She acted very professionally with me before I had the S/R done (2:1) and then after told me she thought I was extremely brave to do what she knew was a difficult decision but in her opinion clearly the best thing for my family. She said she felt it would have been unethical to express that opinion before the S/R because she didn't want to sway me in one direction or the other. I said I felt sheepish with her because I knew how hard her family life had been and she said, "Honey, having three at *different* times is entirely different to having two at once."

19. nikkav
    
    

    hey ladies, (thank you again, you are wonderful)

    welp i'm still lingering on. somehow my head KNEW we could not do this, and i cried, and named my angel baby, and dealt with that for one or two days, and then, i wanted a serious talk with my husband, and he couldn't do it. he couldn't talk to me, so i could tell his head was not in the same place. it no longer was a brush off (i don't BELIEVE), it was more then that. he knows the earlier the better, and now at 14 wks and 3 days, i'm getting far along here. i NEVER thought i'd be at this point, like this.

    we both decided jointly, to have the echo, since it was only another week away at this point, (early this coming week), and see how the baby with the higher NT score, is doing. it's still early so i'm sure not EVERYTHING, will be seen, at 1 day shy of 15 wks, but they do do it starting at 14, and so i know at mt sinai, i'll be in good hands, so it's worth the travel for us.

    i also would like a detailed u/s, but that same day we are there is out, unfortunately. i just need ALL the knowledge i can get..we can get. we both are set on that, after the cvs results came back normal. i said to myself...OMG, what if we reduced and then found out there was some abnormality (structural etc), with the baby we kept. i know, i know, it seems like all one giant stall, but you don't know my horrid luck, i feel like i could be in that place, and i'd feel my whole life like i've been punished, if ukwim.

    NOW...this is how it stands....if the cvs results were abnormal, we'd have easilly reduced and my consious remain mostly clear, but that didn't happen. if i learn of a heart defect, we could much more easilly choose to reduce at that point, or after a detailed u/s, i do get an u/s from my ob the Tuesday after this one coming up, but idk what they will be checking, and how thoroughly at that time, i really wish it was sooner.

    now i could see my husband, if it were minor trying to go thru with this, at this point, but at the same time, i'm not seeing him jumping for joy over having two babies, sadly he's not even JUMPING for one, which kills me, because we ttced, i THOUGHT his heart was completely in it, but he's been quiet, i'm sure there is more worry and emotion there, that iam not seeing, i just appreciate communication, so that part of things is hard. i try and equate these stalls and waiting for this result and that result, as him wanting to try and keep both, though i know its gonna be all on me, and i'm very scared.

    BUT for me, if something was wrong, i could reduce much easier, and if all goes the way God has it so far, we likely will be having two. it's sooo bizarre, i'm petrified of twins, been crying, been scared out of my head, but i started looking at the u/s pictures, and using my doppler at home, and though i must admit, when i couldn't find one so fast the other day, i felt a sad wave of peace and relief pass over me, but then i flipped back to ok..this is my reality, and am coping best i can with it. i know i'd love two babies, i just have so many very valid worries and concerns to work through.

    i even bought some outfits, and baby stuff, and yeah i did in two's, just kept all the reciepts, in case, if ukwim, but its the closest i have come to being realistic with my pregnancy and bonding enough to be doing these things, but i'm still not the way i was with my singletons. it's still a bit surreal, and no amount of time would make this easier, just harder IMO, but getting all the knowledge we can, is the only way i can find peace with this, and apparently hubby to. it's just what we must do. mom pressures to keep but refuses to help in any way, dad is all for reduction, and everything he says sadly makes complete and total sense, i have noone middle of the road to talk to but you all. thanks for that. and for the remaining pms i promise to get there. everytime i feel secure we likely won't reduce i vanish, but still reading all the posts makes me cry and wonder, if i could survive a SR and be OK down the line. it's such a hard choice and time is NOT on my side..out of the 1st tri, though they said they do it even at 24 weeks, i could never go that far. that's sick to me, unless my life or something terrible was found, and needed to be dealt with, but i doubt there will be much left unseen by that point.

    bassal- 1. if i were NOT financially dependant, i would feel easilly that i could leave my husband if need be, for any reasons. we aren't at that point, but i fear twins may put us there, though hopefully he's on the road to some growing up, change, that needed to happen, however, i'd chose my babies over any man any day, once they become a reality for me, right now, i've been quite detached, so it's not the same as my singletons but some bonding is starting but it's not as much by far as i'd like it to be, only cause i still feel a bit torn, but when your children are here, you'd choose them over anybody else, any day, that is just how it is. i just wish i had my own loot, that's all, or at least some fakmily support, some siblings SOMETHING, or someone to fall back on, if need be.

    2. no, i wouldn't have the selective reduction to save the marriage. if i did it for him, and my worries of that, i'd end up throwing it in his face for life..LOOK WHAT YOU MADE ME DO, BUT on the flip side, if my heart and head were into reduction, last week it was, this week, not, well my head at least, then, if he wanted the same, i'd feel relieved, at least last week, and maybe two days from now, who knows, and i'd definitely go through with it, but i'm not now getting that 'vibe' from him. i don't think he'd harbour resentment if he wanted to try and i felt too weak and reduced, unlike vise versa, because he's basically said it in a round about way, that it's your choice and i stand by you, BUT this is one of those times, that is just not good enough, it needs to be talked thru, so we make sure no ill feelings are ever felt.

    3&4. if i had the SR and lost both...i'd BLAME MYSELF FOREVER!!! i'm very hard on myself, and i couldn't deal with that kind of guilt, but on the same token, if i went thru with this and lost both or just one at delivery, i'd blame myself for that for life to. a crystal ball would be REALLY nice to have right about now. or disabilities, that would KILL ME inside to, knowing i could have saved one healthy baby. it SUCKS!!!
    catch 22 at it's WORST!

    sannino- sorry for what you were forced to go through honey. noone should have to be in these shoes, but for me, if there were 3 or more, and my body type, and history of PTL and loss, there would be NOO question, i'd have to reduce. i always thought down to one, but possibly two if we were at peace with that and both were healthy, but idk, 1 just seems perfect for us, so it's hard to say, but i could handle the guilt better because i'd feel in that place i'd HAVE NO CHOICE, it'd be made for me, but with two it's different u know??

    yes dr stone could also not assure us of a healthy baby with the hgher NT result, despite the CVS results, and said that would be the one she'd reduce. i guess i could always try and convince myself that something WAS maybe wrong, or that it definitely was, and try and find peace in that, but it'd be really hard, much harder then KNOWING IT.

    we decided to see what the next scans show, the fetal echo and a closer look the next week. it would be far along but if something was wrong, my decision would be made, if not, we'd likely continue, even though at this moment, i'd feel sadness in ways if one passed, but relief in other ways..if that makes any sense, but to lose one later on, would be much much worse.

    i to believe you did what was right. you obviously are having a hard enough time carrying twins, so trips, who knows what could have happened? i mean, i know that would end tragically for me, i wouldn't ever have to think twice, you did do what you had to, so in your case, i'd not feel the kind of guilt that i would, with it only being twins, though for my family i believe one is best, but i do say, well if we had more money, if dh had more energy and zest for life, if this was before DD, who demands constant attention, it'd be easier to accept the thought of twins, but somehow i can rationalize my way thru most of that and consider the possibility now. i hope the rest of your pregnancy goes fast and as uncomplicated as possible. it sounds awful ((hugs)).

    mariacorreia- thanks honey. i wish in ways my ob was a she, so maybe she could relate, but it's a man, and he seems pretty conservative, and the peri that does my u/s now, and the nurse that watches, and advises, his wife, is all thrilled for us, and so are the receptionists..just EVERYBODY there knows, so how does one explain it to everyone, it's then a completely public issue and i'm a pretty weak, wanting to please people, and have them all like me, type of person, i don't see how i could ever stay there if they all knew, UNLESS something was wrong, then i can feel validated, but w/o..i just dunno
    that cant be the decision maker, but its a worry. i'm thrilled you had someone much more understanding, who obviously did not judge you and concisered you courageous, which you are. stronger then iam so far, apparently. thanks for sharing, i hope it all works out eigether way, it's just getting so far, and so scarey.

    i do have a 4 yr old dd, my best friend to think about. w/o any other kids, the choice to keep two would be easier, i will not lie. i've been thinking of positives lately, but last week i was totally definate on reducing. why does the mind flip back and forth so much? too much time to over think? ugh....

    wish us the best. i'll update aftermy fetal echo.

    shelly

20. f_khairat
    
    

    Hi Shelly,

    I read your post where you said "I'm petrified of twins " and I just wanted you to know they're not that scary. I have twins who are almost 20 months old and in the beginning it's a big adjustment but it gets easier and easier.
    I had a 3 to 2 reduction because I'm single and I felt triplets would have been too much for me to handle but I was sure I could handle twins. It was challenging in the first few weeks but I found ways to simplify things, like propping them and feeding both at the same time etc. There's a website twinstuff.com and the mothers give each other pretty good advice about how to do things.
    You wrote that your 4 year old daughter demands constant attention. It might be good for her to have to share your attention. She'll be starting kindergarten in a year or so won't she ? So she'll be away from home sometimes during the day and that will give you more time.

    Good Luck with your fetal echo.

21. lykartem
    
    

    So glad you came back and posted. Sorry you are still on the fence about your situation.

    My DS was 3.5 when my twins were born and it was just fine with that age spacing. My DS is also autistic so there was that to deal with. I'm sure with a typical older child it would be lots easier. The roughest patch I'd have to say is between 15mos and 2yrs because they can't communicate what they want yet and just feeding them or putting down for a nap doesn't solve all their needs like when they were infants. I know it's hard but try not to factor in your older DD into the decision. Will you look back and think "if it weren't for DD being so needy we would have kept both babies". That's a big burden to put on a little girl. Not that she would know it but maybe she would feel something between you. Who knows.

    (For all of you reading this I have been in communication with Shelly off this board. I did "SR" too but from 1-0 because of chromosomal problems so I know how SR feels in addition to carrying twins with an older child at home.)

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