IVF Pregnancy Information

1. Les_petits_debr
   
   

   Hey all- some of you have read and posted with me before, Siggghhhhh..

   I was thinking hard about donor embryo- and then decided I would go for donor egg, i have figured out the finances- have enough money to do one at a good clinic with success rates around 70-75%, costs 20k, anonymous donor.

   I have already had my consult, mock transfer, have my psych eval scheduled- just need a few labs repeated- on the wait list for a match- could be within the month or 2. Could cycle by nov- jan.

   Last night- i just starting thinking again- about the stress of "doing" an IVF cycle- having a donor doesn't really decrease the stress for me- i would still be worrying about how she did on the drugs, how many follies, how many eggs retrieved- how many of them my dh"s pitiful sperm would fertilize- IF we would get 2 good blasts for transfer or anything to freeze- still faced with the possibility of using donor sperm, then the whole 2 ww, and on and on. Not to mention the 20k price tag and possibly only getting 2 good blasts if we are lucky- and STILL get a bfn, I would then be 65K in debt just this year for fertility treatment.

   My other option- Donor embryo- from our good clinic with FET success rate of 43% from donor egg cycles- they gurantee 2 excellent blasts- and on day of thaw if they aren't excellent they will unthaw 2 more to gurantee u get 2 great ones- all for 5k. You know the drill - take bcp, take lupron, do a trigger- hope for a good lining- go in - transfer and wait- to me SOOOOO much less stressful than the DE route.

   I know _ giving up the genetic connection- but really I am thinking I JUST DON"T CARE- my dh doesn't care- when I ask him he says- IT"S NOT UP TO ME- i think he prefers donor embryo simply b/c it is only 5 k- we could do 4 donor embryo cycles for the cost of 1 fresh donor egg cycle.

   Any advice or thoughts- I really thought I had this figured out-but i have NOONE In the real world to talk to about this and I am feeling so ill. I want to move on, I want a baby, I want one Now. Oh why can't one fall into my lap??
   Jen

3. Ozge
   
   

   hi jen, well, my guess is the results here are going to be skewed a bit ( because we are on a DE board ), but here's my 2 cents ( and in full disclosure, i am planning to do an EA cycle soon. - (i am starting to say e/a - embryos adoption so as not to confuse with donor egg..)

   anyway- the way you've explained it here, to me it sounds like a no-brainer- do the embryos adoption cycles- if you could do 4 cycles with a reputable clinic, you could realistically build teh size family you ideally want- many of the embryos donated are from couples who used donors, so the quality is good. if you dont care about a genetic connection, then EA will afford you a ( much?) better chance of success , ( based on what you said about dhs sperm maybe being a problem) and not knowing how the donor will do- i mean, i;ve seen donors do well,a nd i've seen young proven donors have a crappy cycle- you can never tell, and you stilll have to deal with the stress of it all- in EA, the embryos are already created, so , to me, a MAJOR source of the stress of a cycle is over- AND, in most cases ( at least with my clinic) , if for some reason your batch of embies doesnt thaw, most likely the clinic will replace them with another batch, without charging you and making you go through it all again, so there is also no chance of a 'nothing ' thawed ' scenario, which i've been thru w/ my own eggs, which sucks.

   the other great thing, IMO, is the amazing philanthropic aspect of it- with all of the hundreds of thousands of little lives hanging in limbo, EA allows for those lives to be given a chance to evolve- and i think thats wonderful. its a beautiful option, and such a generous gift from the people who choose this for their embryos.

   best of luck to you in deciding this, i hope however it works out you are able to feel peaceful in your decision and it resolves in the family you want. best, violet.

4. luciabogoni
   
   

   Hi Jen, i'm sorry you're having such a hard time, i know how we all struggle with these decisions all the time and just when you think you're all set, then you start to second guess yourself.

   nobody can make this decision for you, but on this question, i happen to agree with Violet that EA is your best next step.

   you're already in debt from these cycles and another $20k is not a small number, plus no matter how careful you are with donor selection etc, you're not gauranteed a blast. so DE is more expensive, more stressful and less likely to succeed in part because of your DH's MF issue...have the REs given you a % chance of success with TESE? that should factor into your decision too because the success rates that clinics quote are all manipulated to reflect the best possible outcome.

   on the other hand, EA is 25% of the cost, it's as close to a 'sure thing' as we can get, especially as you have already had a healthy pg, and it's the closest you're going to get to having that baby fall into your lap...and think what you could do with the extra $15k over the holidays and so on.

   which ever decision you make, it sounds like you will have to make it on your own as your DH doesn't mind either way. keep in mind that we are all very fortunate to have these wonderful options that are given to us by generous spirits and as Violet said, you get to put a little life that's waiting for you right into action.

   i have lots and lots of friends who have kids, their own bio kids, adopted kids, kids born of DE or DS, some with a mix of all three. they all adore their kids and never regret their decison. if DE doesn't work for you, how long will it take to scrape together the $5k to do an EA cycle, not to mention to put yourself back together after the disappointment.

   maybe you should lurk on the adoption boards a bit because i think EA and adoption are similar in terms of not having the bio link. that said, i have always been surprised that even with my friends who have done international adoption and the kids dont look a bit like them, the kids still have their mannerisms, characteristics etc. it's so funny to watch.

   so my somewhat unemotional advice for you, because it's not my personal decision, is to move on to EA asap and don't look back...

5. luciabogoni
   
   

   PS - Violet, great call with EA - i'm always confused otherwise

6. monx
   
   

   Hi Jen!

   I'm with you on the wavering back and forth. I had a hard time choosing an egg donor.

   My chromosome error pregnancy from a fresh DE/DS IVF out of seven embryos with none to freeze tore the bottom out for me. So I fell on the 'unfortunate' side of the odds for certain. Not a pleasant place to be when the cycle was my third 'last hurrah' attempt for siblings.

   When I was viewing donor embies, it seemed simpler to chose. I think because I was thinking of what the child(ren) would be like and could I live with it, instead of trying to replace my family's looks/interests/talents. There is less information than using DE/DS.

   Anyway, I'm still grieving my loss and have not even had AF yet, though I've known for over two months that my baby would not live.

   So not sure if my ramblings helped, but donor embryo, when you are not certain about the quality of the sperm for a fresh makes more sense in my situation. Even if I had the money for another fresh cycle, I'm asking myself why? the only reason I did it was to have my children be half-siblings and their only concern is that they have a sibling to grow up with.

   It's been ten years on ART for me and I'm ready to be done. Successfully though, not ending on two m/c's.

   Good luck with your decision!

   Dana

7. Les_petits_debr
   
   

   Mairead and Violet- thank you for your responses.

   I think u r right my anxiety over how the donor egg cycle would go and the cost with no gurantee makes me want to throw up. I am going to submit my paperwork to my clinic for donor embryo, send in our pics and see what happens.

   Maybe in that sense the decision will be made for me- I will get matched immediately to embryo and if so- probably just go for it.

   DH has always been able to fertilize the eggs we got , and got at least 1-2 good 8 cell embryo's- but never a blast. But the docs have now attributed that to my eggs- they said 10% sperm related and 90%egg related to embryo quality.

   Sigh- I just don't think it is worth the financial risk even though my chances r great- but I would hate to spend that money and get a bfn.

   These r tough decisions- I think I really am okay with having no genetic connection b/c I know the bond has nothing to do with genetics, and neither does love.

   I just hate that I have done a 180 in terms of my decisions- but why would I if deep down I really don't want to go thru that whole "process" again.
   Jen

8. luciabogoni
   
   

   don't beat yourself up, this is a very big and tough decision that you need to make and you've told us that your dh doesnt want to be too involved and you can't discuss w your friends irl. so just try, i know it's hard, but try to relax a little bit and maybe the answer will come to you.

   what i find most difficult in picking our egg donor is that if we have kids who are sick i'll blame myself for picking the wrong one and it will torture me every day. these are not easy choices that we are faced with, but we are lucky to have options.

9. Koliousis
   
   

   Jen,

   It looks like we girl on here all go for embryo donor,I just think it worked for so many and for a fraction of the price.

   Even though it didnt work for me but I`m starting to believe that the embies provided to me by my clinic were not of the best quality even though my RE assured me they were...

   Anyways I know of many couples who were blessed going the route of EA so now this is your decision to make and yours only!

   What ever you chose to do I wish you lots of luck!

   Natasha.

10. RaoudhaGafrej
    
    

    Jen-

    I’m sorry that you are having such a hard trying to decide which route to take. For me, I go with my instincts as to what feels right to me. That’s not to say that I throw caution to the wind, but when you are deciding between DE & EA I don’t think there is a right or a wrong answer. But when you look at the pros & the cons there is probably a choice that feels like the better fit for you. Sounds like you are moving towards EA being that choice. It’s a big decision and you should have no concerns about changing your mind or having your feelings evolve as you get closer to making a final decision. I hope everything works out great for you.

11. skanavi
    
    

    Jen... DH and I went through a similar situation when deciding to do either EA or another DE cycle. Our DE cycle ended in a chemical pg. We had 4 embies, but only 2 embies to transfer for day 2. I had a hard time emotionally with our DE cycle b/c she wasn't responding as well as my RE had hoped. If we were to do another DE cycle, we'd use a much younger donor, so we should have more embies at blast to transfer. The key was "should", but again, there was no guarantees that would happen.

    While trying to make our decision, we found a perfect match for EA, and they were donating 3 blasts, PGD'd normal, vitrified and excellent quality. They did 2 IVF cycles for these 3 blasts that they are donating to us. My DH didn't care whether our baby had mine, his or our genetics. We've been in this hell way too long, and he just wanted a healthy baby, so we can move on with our lives. In the end, I followed my heart and gut and went for EA. Our goal in all of this is to have a healthy baby, and we're the closest we've ever been with EA. Even if we were to do DE, we'd definitely consider doing PGD on the embies to minimize our risk of a m/c. There are no guarantees that we'd have 3 PGD'd normal embies from a DE cycle. I'm in the midst of my FET for the EA embies. I have NO regrets. Plus, I have 3 opportunities for a baby to fall into my lap without having to go through the expense, uncertainties and stress of another IVF cycle... how many follies, how many mature eggs retrieved, how many fertilize, how many make it to day 3, how many make it to blast, how many of the blasts are PGD'd normals, etc... We have 3 beautiful PGD'd normal blasts ready to go. Now my lining just needs to get in line and be plump and ready for the transfer.

    It seems like you are close to your decision. Follow your heart and gut on this. PM me if you want to chat. Good luck!

12. Les_petits_debr
    
    

    Christy, Flynn, Maeread- Natasha and Violet- thanks so much for "reading" it really does help to get my feelings out and try to rationally think about all of this.

    I have been going over this alot today- and the thing that brings me back to donor egg is my concern that dh will treat a child from EA different than our genetic son conceived thru IVF. I say this b/c I have experienced first hand with him how he can be to my "family", my grandmother, and brother who have both lived with us for awhile. I know it is hard for him, but they are a burden to him even though I love them very much-he has stressed me out over them, been hurtful, and I worry that some of this same "stuff" might show it's head if we had an EA child- if I had no husband that is exactly what I would do- but I do. He knows how bad I want to have a child and doesn't care one way or another if we do - he is sick of the financial and emotional strain- how our lives have been on hold with IF- but he is resigned to letting me do whatever i choose

    I just feel "if" we did donor egg with his sperm and were lucky to make it to transfer with a good blast or 2 and get pg- he would be much more accepting. I know if 1 donor egg cycle didn't work- i would Immeditely move on to EA- i am not willing to shell out that kind of money more than once.

    Sigghhh- see- how I have now looked at this again- even more deeper delving into our family dynamics and think- I can suck it up and put my self through the psychological aspect of 1 more ivf cycle.

    Again- i dread the "feelings" you go thru, and I dread shelling out that kind of money. We are both in medical field- so fortunately right now- we will continue to make money so affording an EA doesn't stress me too much.

    UGGGG- thank you- and I will keep you posted on how this turns out- I am still uncertain at this point.
    Jen

13. luciabogoni
    
    

    well, just me personally, but i think it's totally different to have inlaws you may not love thrust upon you full time under the same roof. seeing mine a few times a year is trying enough

    vs you carrying a child and having a sibling to deliberately grow your own family. only you and your DH really know the answer but i do think these two situations are v different.

    at then end of the day, for the sake of the $20k, it may make more sense for you to do a DE cycle and hopefully it works out.

    again just my perspective, but it does seem to me that you're doing a lot of guess work re what DH is thinking, and i don't think that's much fun for anyone. can you two go out for a glass of vino and try to prioritize how he's feeling about all of this?

14. skanavi
    
    

    again just my perspective, but it does seem to me that you're doing a lot of guess work re what DH is thinking, and i don't think that's much fun for anyone. can you two go out for a glass of vino and try to prioritize how he's feeling about all of this?

    I agree... DH told me that he doesn't care about a genetic connection with the baby, yet I still had my doubts and concerns that he will. Before accepting the EA embies, we had a heart to heart talk about it. He told me again that he doesn't care, and I asked him again "Are you absolutely sure?" He said "Yes. I LOVE and care for our dogs like they were our own kids, and they definitely don't have any genetic connections to me." That's definitely a true statement. He also doesn't treat our dogs like he treats my brother's dogs or kids either. It's a different relationship...

    Your EA or DE child will be both of YOUR child... S/he won't be a BIL, GIL, etc... S/he will be YOUR child, so the comparison of how he treats his IL in the past probably won't hold up with how he'll treat his child. They are different relationships.

15. RaoudhaGafrej
    
    

    Jen- it’s a tough issue. I agree with the other ladies that I would keep thinking about EA/DE and try to talk to DH more. A biological link to our child is a very big deal to my DH. He’s not hung up on which one of us has the link but he really wants some mutual genes. I don’t feel the same way but fortunately DE is a viable option for us. It is so important for both people to be totally honest about what they need and want so that you can make a decision that works for both of you. I understand that your DH is frustrated and will allow you to choose, but it's such a big step that it really matters that you both are on board. (in my opinion) You might think about talking this thru with a counselor. It sounds like you have some real concerns to get on the table and a neutral party can sometime help. Take care and keep us posted.

16. mhdixon
    
    

    Jen
    What I'm hearing from you is that you want to do EA and not DE. As far as your DH connecting with the baby, it's one thing to not connect with adults; it's another when it's a cute and trusting baby who is totally dependent on him. Daddy's little girl comes into mind for me. And I agree with Christi's dog analogy. I hope this helps.

17. Les_petits_debr
    
    

    Thanks everyone- I know when you think of it in terms of cute baby, or the dog, versus "in-laws" that yes he should love this child, no matter what. But I just know how he is, how he can be, he is very un-emotional about all of it- he would never have even had our son without my prodding to do it- i had to get off the pill and not tell him we were "really" trying until I new something was wrong after a year. He just "was never ready" to have a child- and I was- hence we did IVF. He is now on his way to 41 and just as much a kid as when I met him at 28. He is a physician - but besides that responsible aspect- he doesn't like responsibility.

    I think b/c we have our son- who is genetically his- he just doesn't "care" one way or another. I have asked him, i bring it up, and he gets ill with me b/c "haven't you already made a decision about this"- he looks at me with this blank face and says "it's your decision". Then last night I brought it up again and said my concerns about his feelings about an EA baby- and he said- yeah maybe your right- so i said " i think i can suffer thru another full ivf cycle ( using DE) to hopefully get a genetically related child to you" and then he agreed with me maybe that was best.... UGGGGG- he is very wishy washy, or appears he doesn't care- then when I look like i am pushing one th ing then he says he thinks it is the best thing too. SO WHAT IS HIS REAL OPINION- he really won't say- and I am afraid he'll just really say I DON"T WANT ANOTHER BABY PERIOD SO STOP ASKING ME AND JUST DO IT!

    I doubt he would open up with a counselr except to say he doesn't care he is supporting what I want- and if she got him in a room by himself he would probably tell him or her he doesn't really want another- SO GOD i hope they don't separate you for the psych eval/interview- I'll have to tell him- reguardless- that isn't an option so he better shake his head YES, and agree. Does anyone else have a "difficult" spouse related to all this.

    I know in some ways he is easy going- and great for being supportive- but sometimes I would really like a little 'REAL" support.
    Jen

18. monx
    
    

    Gosh Jen. What a painful spot to be in. Have you had IF counselling on your own? Maybe it would help you get clear to speak to someone about all the issues you are juggling in your head and your heart. I forget if money is an issue for you or not. I totally get about the anxiousness and uncertaintly of cycling with ED. If money is not an issue and you do ED, then using a single ED would give you more reassurance about your best chance--even if you did not get the amount of viable embryos others may.

    Hugs.

    Dana

19. skanavi
    
    

    Jen... Your DH sounds exactly like mine. He's not wishy washy; he just doesn't really care one way or another. He just wants you to make a decision and do what you want to do without driving him nuts in the process. From the very beginning, my DH told me that I have carte blanche to do whatever I want to do. Take this where I need/want to take it and quit whenever I need/want to quit. After IVF #1 with OE, he told me that he thought I should move on to DE. I told him that I wasn't ready to do that, and he said "OK" and that was that. We went through something similar for every cycle... My DH wants me to take the leadership role on this and run with it, and he'll follow. It was weird at first, but once I ran with it, it was GREAT! If I wanted to do something that he strongly opposed, then he'll tell me. Otherwise, I'm running with it.

    If I were you, I'd make a decision that YOU want to do and run with it. Your DH will follow. Stop asking him what he wants b/c he wants what you want; you'll only drive yourself and him crazy in the process.

20. Les_petits_debr
    
    

    Thanks- christy I think u r right- I think he doesn't want to think about it, just sign here, and make a deposit if needed. I am going to just move forward and I think whichever opportunity appears first I will take it. It may be de or ea- either way will be fine.

    Dana- I use IVFC and my friends who have done ivf as counselors- I think I am just so type A that I analyze and think, obscess about everything- I like to think thru probable scenarios etc- and I ama control freak. I have always been like that 2nd to having some major life changing in bad way experiences- I always suspect the worse or prepare for it so it makes it easier in the end. Siggghhhh. It will be okay.

    Thankyou for your support I will stop beating this to death.
    Jen

21. skanavi
    
    

    I think he doesn't want to think about it, just sign here, and make a deposit if needed.

    Precisely! It's not that he doesn't care about you; he just doesn't care about the process. I know that my DH loves me, and he wants a baby, but he's also OK if we don't have a baby either. That's why he's relinquished his involvement in the process and deferred it to me b/c he knows that I really want to have a baby, and it's not OK for me if we don't have a baby. My DH has been ready to move on to a child-free life for a while, but I'm not, so he's stepped back to let me do what I need to do in order to have our baby.

    You can't go wrong with either DE or EA, especially when finances aren't an issue. Just DO what you think is best... Good luck!

22. Les_petits_debr
    
    

    Well- as I lay in bed at night and AGAIN start worrying about the financial aspect- I still think I am going to fill out my paperwork for EA and send it in, and if I get a good match for EA before getting DE profiles, I think I may just go for EA.

    I have the finances to do 1 DE cycle at about 21k. However,I am cashing in my 401k, which will yield me 10k after taxes and penalties, I have a medical expense acct for 4500, and another 5k from different resources.

    With that said- I have 2 mortgages- that aren't small and about 66k in credit card/medical loan for ivf and other things 2nd to buying a new house.

    We make great money- but it is tight due to not selling our house- and I don't know when we ever will.

    There r times were we barely can make all the payments, and the next month that we have extra.

    I am just worried about "spending" my reserve on the donor egg cycle- b/c what if something happens, and we have no other cash reserve option.

    I have been working every extra shift at the hospital that I can as well as my husband- just to make sure we stay afloat. I figure if the work is available we need to do it. I know when we sell something this will nolonger be an issue- but would I be wiser to save that money by going ea route- hopefully working first time.

    I know again only something I can answer- but I hate worrying about our financial future, thinking of "gambling" a huge chunk of change for something that still may not work. I will just have to see. Keep praying someone will buy my house.
    Jen

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