Husband not open to DS

(82 posts)(20 voices)
  1. We are still going to counseling... May I ask you what the diagnosis was? For us, we have such a severe Male Factor that we were told that we had better odds of winning the lottery than we do of having 1 bio child. My DH is just now starting to realize what we were told. I think he will come around. He knows that adoption is just to expensive and takes too much time for us to do, and that this would be the only way. He is still trying to grieve (I think) the loss of his genetic link. Sometimes I believe that that is the only thing stopping him, and sometimes I think he is just too embarrassed or ashamed for some reason. I wish there was a book that I could read that would help me understand how to help him. I don't think he is struggling with any feeling of inequality, but I don't have any way of knowing. Everytime I ask him questions, he tells me "I don't know" So, I am at a loss.

  2. We also have SEVERE male factor. Tried 1 fresh IVF, 1 FET...both BFN. $12,000 later we have really nothing to show for it.

    Originally, my DH was adamantly against DS. Telling me there is no way he could deal with it. However, after the 2 failed cycles and seeing how much pain and heartache I felt, he has jumped aboard and we will do IUIw/DS in November.

    I hope things work out for you...I know how hard this is.

  3. semaalevcan-
    How long did it take for your DH to decide that he could handle the DS?

  4. We first started this crazy quest in January. This is before we really knew the extent of his issues. My original thought was to do IUI with his sperm. We were told IVF was our only option with his sperm. I had already begun talking donor sperm at this point. I just had a feeling. He was resistant.

    June first IVF...BFN

    again, I spoke of donor sperm...he was resistant

    October FET...BFN

    it was at this point before we even found out that it was a BFN that he said if this doesn't work, that we could do donor sperm and that he would be OK with it.

    For us, we asked ourselves this question...what do you want at the end of the game? If the answer is a baby, then you should be able to do whatever it takes to achieve this.

    In my gut, I always knew he would come around to DS. My happiness, our marriage is very important to him....and he did not want to do anything to jeopardize it.

    You probably know the answer deep down in your gut...it may or may not be the answer you want to hear...

    If the answer to the question above for you is that you want a baby at the end of the game...you need to ask yourself some really tough questions.

    I wish I could make this easier for you...I can only imagine your stress.

  5. Our diagnosis is low sperm parameters and elevated FSH for DW. My problem with donor sperm is that I consider it a sign of failure, and I do not respond well to failure. I will not go through life feeling less of a man because of this. There are other ways to have children that do not involve destroying my self esteem.

  6. spirosm-
    I really appreciate you talking to me. My DH doesn't talk! I might be able to get him to answer yes or no about this subject, but I need to know what questions to ask him. Any information that I hear you saying, I might be able to find out if that is the same way he feels.

    semaalevcan-
    I already know that the answer for me is a baby. I am currently asking myself those tough questions. My DH says that he wants that same thing. We started this journey 2.5 years ago and he feels as though the DS didn't become an issue until this past August. I, however, also had a feeling that it was a problem and started bringing it up in around February after the dr told us that if we do another cycle, he wouldn't do it unless we either used donor or do PGD. So we did a cycle of PGD.

  7. I know that Bill feels a sense of failure...I would be lying if I said he didn't. However, I think the bigger failure would be not giving yourselves the opportunity to raise a child together. If you are willing to adopt, can you not deal with donor sperm? Only you can impose feelings of being less of a man on yourself...

    For us, adoption is not an option due to his age...we would not be eligible for an infant.

    Good luck...I hope everything works out as it was meant to be.

    Our diagnosis is low sperm parameters and elevated FSH for DW. My problem with donor sperm is that I consider it a sign of failure, and I do not respond well to failure. I will not go through life feeling less of a man because of this. There are other ways to have children that do not involve destroying my self esteem.

  8. I know that Bill feels a sense of failure...I would be lying if I said he didn't. However, I think the bigger failure would be not giving yourselves the opportunity to raise a child together. If you are willing to adopt, can you not deal with donor sperm? Only you can impose feelings of being less of a man on yourself...For us, adoption is not an option due to his age...we would not be eligible for an infant.Good luck...I hope everything works out as it was meant to be.

    Agreed. The chance to raise a child together is a great opportunity, filled with love, stress, fear and wonder. All the better reason to adopt a child who might be facing a hard life, with the potential for abuse and neglect. I am fine adopting an older child, or a child born of a scared teenager, or a drug addict. The difference between donor and adoption for me is one of social acceptance. Let's face it, donor is controversial in American society, while adoption is warmly embraced. So many donor families feel compelled to hide the truth, while adoptive parents are looked up to. Given the choice between being a failure and being a hero (in some small capacity), I know the choice that I will make.

    As for being the only one who can impose feelings of being less than a man, I have the feelings that I have, and no one will dictate my feelings to me. I can no more change my feelings than anyone else. That is a difficult thing to accept for some people, but humans are like that.

    Good luck in all of your endeavors,

    spirosm

  9. I applaud you in your thoughts....I am not sure I am ready to take on a child who has suffered abuse, drugs etc. It is good there are people like you....willing to shoulder the risks involved with that path

    However, I disagree with the social acceptance/nonacceptance....at least in the community where I live....I know people who have used donor eggs, sperm, even donor embryos. Some are "regular" couples...some are same-sex couples. I guess I never really felt this was controversial any more than I felt adoption was heroic.....I suppose it's all a matter of opinions.

    Take it easy....

  10. I agree that everyone should have their own thoughts and feelings. My problem is that my DH doesn't know how to tell me what he thinks and feels about this. I need to hear from other people what they feel and what they think about this situation so that I can bring it up to my DH and find out what is going on in his head.

  11. I agree with Rep in the sense that the feelings that he has are his, and no one can change his mind. I think you most likely have a tough road ahead of you.

    In my case, I always knew he could eventually get there...in our case it was going through 2 failed IVFs first before there was a sense of acceptance.

    He may never really be able to deal with or articulate his thoughts to you...I am sure that is so frustrating for you.

  12. you said it..
    "He may never really be able to deal with or articulate his thoughts to you...I am sure that is so frustrating for you."

    Hearing from other people.. gives me more of an idea of what he may be thinking. I can then go and ask him if he feels whatever way I was informed about. It gives me a way to try to talk to him about this.

  13. you said it.. "He may never really be able to deal with or articulate his thoughts to you...I am sure that is so frustrating for you."Hearing from other people.. gives me more of an idea of what he may be thinking. I can then go and ask him if he feels whatever way I was informed about. It gives me a way to try to talk to him about this.

    Hopefully, this discussion is helping. I really just worry the most about him acquiescing to the use of donor sperm, only to have these feelings of failure continue to build up until he melts down or explodes one day. The last thing you want is for him to wake up one day, decide that he no longer wants to be part of the donor child's life, and leave you. Raising a child is challenging enough with two people. Single mothers can have a really tough time.

  14. Quote:
    The last thing you want is for him to wake up one day, decide that he no longer wants to be part of the donor child's life, and leave you

    exactly. That is my biggest fear. I am stuck in a place where I know that I can't live without having children. I don't know whether it is better to just say forget it, that we will not be able to handle this ever and leave. Or, do I risk the situation that you mentioned. Right now, I am leavign towards just leaving.

  15. I'm just guessing here...but it sounds more to me like he can't get to a point of even having you do donor IUI...so him leaving you is so far down the beaten path...I think your decisions are more in the here & now....and not easy.

    Are you willing to walk away from your marriage? I am not sure you mentioned your age...but without sounding cavalier...fertility doesn't get any better as you get older...so at some point you will need to make a choice before the choices are taken away from you

  16. I am young.. but I have read a lot of stories where the wives had given the husband as long as they needed to come to a decision. In some of those cases, the decision was no and the wife was then left at a point where she was older and unable to have children. I don't want to get to that point

    I am here, because I don't know how to proceed. I don't know how to talk to my DH and I don't know how to walk away. I just don't know what to do.

  17. I think you talk to your husband from the heart...not with anger...

    But truthfully, before you do this, you need to get in touch with yourself from within and decide if you are really ready to walk away. Because if your not...to make idle threats is useless.

    Have you considered some therapy just for you? Maybe they could help you find the strength to do whatever it is that you ultimately decide.

  18. As for being the only one who can impose feelings of being less than a man, I have the feelings that I have, and no one will dictate my feelings to me. I can no more change my feelings than anyone else. That is a difficult thing to accept for some people, but humans are like that.

    You can't change the way you feel now, but what you have to acknowledge is that it is possible for some people to change their mind.

    I remember when we first started on our journey. Donor sperm was raised as an option to us by a genetic counselor. It seemed the most repulsive thing in the world to both of us.

    Fast forward through a few years of heartache, wrenching physical and emotional pain, and tens of thousands of dollars... and suddenly donor egg and/or donor sperm seemed "exciting" to us because it gave us a much better chance to conceive.

    You are right that some people do not have the capacity to go through with donor egg or donor sperm. It's just against their makeup.

    But then there's a group of people who actually do have it in them, but it takes a LONG time to get there. And there's no way to look into a crystal ball to see if you're one of those people who could ultimately reach that point.

    ----------------

    Question for those who are unwilling to do a donor cycle:

    If you married somebody with the intention of having kids with her, why wouldn't you want to pass on her qualities to your children? Is she beautiful? Why wouldn't you want a child to possibly look like her? Is she loving? Why wouldn't you want a child to potentially have that quality?

    Why wouldn't you want the genes of the woman you love to at least be put on the "genetics roulette wheel" with the possiblity of being passed on?

    My DH genuinely seems to take a lot of joy in trying to pick out some of my characteristics in our daughter, few though they may be!

  19. You can't change the way you feel now, but what you have to acknowledge is that it is possible for some people to change their mind.I remember when we first started on our journey. Donor sperm was raised as an option to us by a genetic counselor. It seemed the most repulsive thing in the world to both of us.Fast forward through a few years of heartache, wrenching physical and emotional pain, and tens of thousands of dollars... and suddenly donor egg and/or donor sperm seemed "exciting" to us because it gave us a much better chance to conceive.You are right that some people do not have the capacity to go through with donor egg or donor sperm. It's just against their makeup.But then there's a group of people who actually do have it in them, but it takes a LONG time to get there. And there's no way to look into a crystal ball to see if you're one of those people who could ultimately reach that point.----------------Question for those who are unwilling to do a donor cycle:If you married somebody with the intention of having kids with her, why wouldn't you want to pass on her qualities to your children? Is she beautiful? Why wouldn't you want a child to possibly look like her? Is she loving? Why wouldn't you want a child to potentially have that quality? Why wouldn't you want the genes of the woman you love to at least be put on the "genetics roulette wheel" with the possiblity of being passed on?My DH genuinely seems to take a lot of joy in trying to pick out some of my characteristics in our daughter, few though they may be!

    True, but at this point, I would rather go without a child than face the humiliation of donor sperm. If that means that DW and I go our separate ways, then that is the way it is. DW could easily find someone else to have a baby with. There is nothing special about me. I can be replaced with little effort.

  20. spirosm--I have to say that, though I don't agree with your attitude (and what difference would it make--you feel as you feel, I know!) I admire your clarity. I doubt that your wife actually feels that you are not special. But I get your point.

    Killinga, I have read your thread over the days (weeks?) with such interest, such empathy, and deep sadness for you and your husband. Having been in your shoes, so long ago now, hearing you describe the pain you are both going through brings up my old wounds so freshly. It amazes me how the sting of IF is so easily resurrected.

    My former DH was sterilized by chemo, so once we knew that, there were three options--no child, adoption, and donor. I jumped at donor and the chance to be pregnant, and I think he was so stunned, and so grief-stricken at his own lot in life, that he just went along with it. I suspect, now that many years have passed, that he, too, would have been happier to just let it go or adopt; that doing DS was deeply difficult for him. He had already been traumatized by cancer, and becoming sterile must have made it seem like a cruel joke that he had survived. He became so withdrawn and pulled away from me; our marriage became deeply lonely for both of us. Though we sought counseling, it really didn't get to the deeper issues, and once our names came up on the donor waiting list (in 1985, there was no cryopreservation, we had to go with fresh DS through a hospital program), I became even more obsessed with getting pregnant.

    He was thrilled with our son and loves him a great deal. But I finally had to leave that empty relationship, when our son was 9, and their relationship has really struggled over the years. I wonder sometimes if it is only his (ex-DHs) emotional unavailability, or if he feels that our son is not really his. They are *very* different; our son is brilliant and intellectual and kind of unusual; his dad (ex-DH) is smart but not an intellectual, and kept trying to teach his son to surf and play baseball. It quickly became evident as our son reached adolescence that his dad had (and has) no idea who he is, what he is really like. It breaks my heart sometimes. I'm proud of my son because now that he is reaching adulthood he is making an effort to spend time with his dad and bond in whatever way he can. He sees him as his dad, he grasps his weaknesses, he even understands to some degree why our marriage didn't work out.

    Sorry, this must seem like I'm just rambling and hijacking your thread. I guess my point in writing is to tell you that if you and your DH cannot come to terms on this topic, I would humbly advise you NOT to pursue the pregnancy just now (unless you are old enough that you really don't have time). As spirosm pointed out, this issue will not go away unresolved. Though your DH could probably come to love any baby that came into your home, the unresolved feelings about himself and your relationship WILL affect your future.

    I'm sorry. This probably isn't much help. I wish you the best.

    Emily
    Christopher 21 (the light and joy and heartache of my life)
    Lizzie and Katie 4y 10m (not my bio babies, but oh, how i love them)

  21. Hello laurelfitzgerald,

    Thank you for the response. After reading some of your previous posts, it is clear that you have had a tough time of it. My heart goes out to you and your family. I really would like to have children, to experience being a father. I just want it to be in a manner that is acceptable to me. Hopefully, things will work out. If not, I will find a way to carry on.

    Best regards,

    spirosm

  22. spirosm,

    I'm so sorry you feel that way. I'm sure you CANNOT be replaced!

    I can't explain why my DH does not find our use of donor sperm 'humilitating.' (Although, I will grant you he went through grieving to get to the point to do it.)

    DH is a very secure guy... very secure in his masculinity... always has been. Maybe that has helped??

    ----------------

    As for what you wrote about your DW...

    I will admit to having had a fleeting thought of self-pity, thinking, "Of all the guys in the world, I picked a guy with a chromosome disorder. Why??"

    Then after reading threads like these, I realize that not every guy in the world would be willing to give the gift that he gave us. I am reminded that I actually chose someone quite rare. The fact is, I could have picked any number of men with infertility because it's very common... but I was lucky enough to end up with someone who was willing to do this. That realization is really very powerful.

    I wish you could see our DD with her Daddy -- the two of them are two peas in a pod. If there's anything I can do to help you, please PM me. I just want you to realize that there are stories of happy outcomes out there.

  23. Thank *you* spirosm! Yep, you don't get to be my age and not gain a few scars along the way, but I have to say, I am so happy now with my life. I am so, so lucky to have the partner and the children that came into my life, through the most unexpected ways. I so hope for you that you get to be a father too. There are so many ways to build a family...and you just never know what the future might bring. Who would have thought that I'd become the mother of twins at 48?!!! It turned my world upside down, or perhaps, in retrospect, it turned it back to right-side-up after I had pretty much blown up my life at 40 anyway...

    Anyway, I wish you the best, dear man. I'm sorry for the heartache you've suffered.

    Emily

  24. spirosm,I'm so sorry you feel that way. I'm sure you CANNOT be replaced!I can't explain why my DH does not find our use of donor sperm 'humilitating.' (Although, I will grant you he went through grieving to get to the point to do it.)DH is a very secure guy... very secure in his masculinity... always has been. Maybe that has helped??----------------As for what you wrote about your DW...I will admit to having had a fleeting thought of self-pity, thinking, "Of all the guys in the world, I picked a guy with a chromosome disorder. Why??"Then after reading threads like these, I realize that not every guy in the world would be willing to give the gift that he gave us. I am reminded that I actually chose someone quite rare. The fact is, I could have picked any number of men with infertility because it's very common... but I was lucky enough to end up with someone who was willing to do this. That realization is really very powerful.I wish you could see our DD with her Daddy -- the two of them are two peas in a pod. If there's anything I can do to help you, please PM me. I just want you to realize that there are stories of happy outcomes out there.

    Hi Eliza,

    I am happy that things worked out for you and your DH and DD. That is very good to hear. As for your observation about feeling secure in one's masculinity, that is likely part of it. I really don't feel comfortable with myself, for reasons unrelated to infertility. I have spoken of this to my psychologist, and it is just part of who I am. I don't deal well with failure. Thanks for the response.

    spirosm

  25. spirosm,

    That you recognize some of your feelings and faults-- that's tremendous. And rare! You sound like a real 'catch' to me. Keep in mind, just as the would-be father grieves the loss of a genetic connection, the would-be mom (your DW) mourns it, too. She loves you, she married you for a reason, and it hurts her, too... trust me.

    But I know you're still working on some traditional IVF cycles, and you'll be in my prayers on that front.

    I assume you've been given a thorough work-up by a competent andrologist... karyotyping and the whole 9 yards?

    Eliza

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