IVF Pregnancy Information

1. salex
   
   

   From my recent thread/posts, you can probably tell I am in a pretty bitter mood since yesterday's s*cker punch, and it has made me think about a topic that I fantasize about sometimes (I even have full conversations about it in my head). I was wondering if it is only me, or if some other vets have had a similar fantasy, or those vets who have crossed over, have been able to act on the fantasy....

   ....my fantasy is that I have crossed-over, and I have the b*lls to let every single person who has made my life complete h*ll during this nightmare, (my sister, insensitive fertile co-worker, people who make the "just relax, drink a bottle of wine" comments, all of the "fawners" at work, the "friends" who have conveniently stopped calling me etc etc.) how awful they were and how hurtful, insensitive and inhumane they were. I dont feel like I can do this now as I feel weak and bitter. If I am some day ever on the other side, I dream of having the opportunity to do this.

   Does anyone have a similar fantasy?
   Has anyone ever been able to really let the aformentioned fertiles have it?

   Trina

   PS Am I too bitter for this board today?

3. aspasiavasilaki
   
   

   No one is ever too bitter for this board.

   While I don't fantazise about paybacks, I do believe in karma. So far, people who have been (intentionally) evil to me in the past, are not currenly in very good places.

4. Spartali
   
   

   Oh my god yes I have those fantasies.

   I have trouble with the karma thing....because people use it to justify infertility too...as we have all read about from time to time. I'm sure there are people out there thinking that it's "karma" that's making us infertile.

5. Shaktipande
   
   

   Yes, I have had those fantasies of telling off the 'stupid'. And yes I was finally pushed far enough to do it. My stupid fukking inconsiderate boeyotch of an aunt and her dumshite daughter. And I haven't spoken to either since.

6. Spartali
   
   

   For all the times my sisters and my mother have told me that "I couldn't possibly understand" (whatever it is) because I don't have children.

7. achcha
   
   

   Fantasize about this? I've actually done it. They were thoughtless enough or mean enough to unintentionally or intentionally do or say xyz to hurt me in the first place, so they end up being incapable or unwilling to get or acknowledge how hurtful they have been when I try to say something and end up invalidating the pain even further. I have snapped and yelled at people, and I have also tried to have reasoned conversations (not well) so that they don't do it to someone else. Neither have worked. I don't know if things would have worked out better had I crossed over before saying something. People who don't get it, don't get it. And yes, I believe that some people I've tried to say these things to think I may be IF due to not being happy enough for them -- thus karma.

8. sambur
   
   

   never too bitter. Never. Bitterness loves company. I may out-bitter you...

   I don't fantasize about that, so much, as I fantasize about being able to be completely insensitive to some big problem they face. Wishing evil, just so I can say, "karma" or "maybe your *insert horrible event* was meant to be" or "just relax"

   I know, completely horrible. And ridiculously bitter.

9. achcha
   
   

   never too bitter. Never. Bitterness loves company. I may out-bitter you...I don't fantasize about that, so much, as I fantasize about being able to be completely insensitive to some big problem they face. Wishing evil, just so I can say, "karma" or "maybe your *insert horrible event* was meant to be" or "just relax"I know, completely horrible. And ridiculously bitter.

   ......but oh so tempting.

10. nzeit
    
    

    I love bitter Trina!!!!

11. SendrikBlack
    
    

    For all the times my sisters and my mother have told me that "I couldn't possibly understand" (whatever it is) because I don't have children.

    Omg. I HATE those comment. Seriously, do people actually HEAR what they are saying when they say that stupid insensitive ridiculous c.ra.p????

12. SendrikBlack
    
    

    Trina,

    Bitter comes with the territory. You can not be "too bitter" for a board designed for that in mind.

    I am having a rather bitter day myself.

    slightly OT rant... I was reading on another post about Celine Dion talking about IF, I am glad she is so open about it and I appreciate her putting herself out there like that. I was rather irked when she mentioned how she is not going to give up, she is going to keep trying. Yup, SHE can afford all the treatment in the world, so she can actually truly "keep trying" - where people like me (with no coverage- and not super wealthy) don't have the luxury to at least have the best possible chance to treat our diease.

    All I think about is how she gets all this sympathy and attention for "her" struggle but, she is not really raising awareness for infertility itself, but rather to share "HER" challenges (but I know there is raised awarness as a result).

    Yup. I am super bitter about that. I wish her all the happiness in the world...but I wish for a little payback - in my mythical payback dream she would have to wait for treatment appointments like most of us in the waiting room LOL, and she would have to struggle to pay for treatment too-unless she used her celebrity and open-ness about IF to support the cause in a meaningful way.

13. fiorentzi
    
    

    Impossible to be too bitter, especially on this board. I'm told that in the IF psychology literature, IF women have even talked about wanting to do truly awful, violent things to pg women and babies-to-be. That's not to say it's OK to go act out violence, but just to say that IF is an event of such severity and magnitude that it actually does cause some pretty extreme feelings. I think that's a big part of why I'm so confused about who I've become - the old me certainly didn't think the kinds of things the current one does.

    Personally, I've never gotten to the violent fantasy place (though I sure understand it). But I sure as hell have gotten to the telling-off fantasy place. I mean, I have spoken up to people, but my M.O. is "carefrontational" rather than what I'd really like to say. I guess mainly because I think if I really told people off it wouldn't be satisfying in the end because they'd just look at me like I had four heads and still not get it.

    Actually, now that I think about it, I did tell a nurse off at Cornell once and she did look at me like I had four heads, and still didn't get it. Sigh.

    It\'s an interesting thought, though, to say something after crossing over - at least you wouldn't get the "you couldn't possibly understand" response. Hmm. I think I'll have to fantasize a bit about that one....

14. salex
    
    

    It\'s an interesting thought, though, to say something after crossing over - at least you wouldn't get the "you couldn't possibly understand" response. Hmm. I think I'll have to fantasize a bit about that one....

    I think it might just be a personality thing with me, rather than an IF thing. When I feel weak and vulnerable, I tend to stay low in my bunker, but the second I feel myself gaining strength, I will come out swinging at the ones who deserve it. I guess I like to feel like I am on an even playing field so bitterness cannot be blamed for my "lash-out." If I lashed out now, it would be "poor, bitter, infertile Trina." If I lashed out on what seems to be a more even playing field (though things will never be even, as this disease has scarred and changed me), then they cannot blame my lash-out on the bitterness.

    The one example that comes to mind is September 2008 when the financial crisis hit. DH and I were uniquely situated, as the companies where both of us worked for years were at the center of the storm. There were several weeks where it looked like we would both be out of jobs, lose all company stock and have no health insurance. In a couple of days we literally went from having (or so we thought) security and stability, to near ruin. Anyway, it was very telling how people acted in those couple of weeks. There were some people who were actually gloating about these misfortunes, some who were in positions to help and did not, and a select few who really were amazing and helpful. In any event, I stayed very low in my bunker but when things turned around by December and I kept my job (due to an extraordinary, unprecedented set of circumstances in US history, mind you) and DH was offered an even better position at the bank which bought his bank, then I came out swinging at those that kicked us when we were down. As for the wonderful, wonderful friends and acquaintances that stuck with us during this scary time, I will NEVER, EVER forget them. I would give any one of them the shirt off my back. In the end, this market crash gave me a lot of clarity about the people in my life (though it ended up being short-lived for us thank goodness). IF much different, and much longer, but analagous with respect to a real clarity you get during a crisis that really shows you who you would want in your lifeboat.

15. bagusoi
    
    

    I will NEVER, EVER forget them. I would give any one of them the shirt off my back. In the end, this market crash gave me a lot of clarity about the people in my life (though it ended up being short-lived for us thank goodness). IF much different, and much longer, but analagous with respect to a real clarity you get duing a crisis that really shows you who you would want in your lifeboat.

    very true.

16. SendrikBlack
    
    

    IF much different, and much longer, but analagous with respect to a real clarity you get duing a crisis that really shows you who you would want in your lifeboat.

    Very true indeed.

    I think for me, I have tended to write off the people who I would otherwise wish to swing at once (if) I "cross over"-but part of me does wish to be happier than they are down the road...and be able to gloat just a little perhaps.

17. Xristos_t
    
    

    ** celine dion, dark thoughts revealed, m/c and pregnancy mentioned

    can i confess that i was rather pleased to see a celebrity like celine not always being successful? i'm so tired of no attention paid to the fact that IVF does NOT always work out!!!

    i'm honestly sorry that she lost her pregnancy but as another poster suggested it's mostly about her struggle and her not wanting to give up instead of bringing attention to the fertility struggles.

    and can i also confess that i'm not at all sympathetic to hearing pregnancy women b*tch about being fat, having hemoroids and having to pee all the time? i want to say 'suck it up buttercup - i would!'

    i am truly a bitter betty.

18. balzanmv
    
    

    Totally in agreement with all of you... crisis brings clarity to cut the fat our of our lives. I've trimmed lots... and regret none of it. They are selfish and deserved it.

    And I'm with you: the old me would never, ever entertain the thoughts that cross my mind daily. It doesn't help, but boy it'd feel good to see them suffer for once.

19. salex
    
    

    sorry for the really poor spelling tonight. for some reason my keybd is really sticky tonight and having trouble typing

20. LAKIS
    
    

    As for the wonderful, wonderful friends and acquaintances that stuck with us during this scary time, I will NEVER, EVER forget them. I would give any one of them the shirt off my back. In the end, this market crash gave me a lot of clarity about the people in my life (though it ended up being short-lived for us thank goodness). IF much different, and much longer, but analagous with respect to a real clarity you get during a crisis that really shows you who you would want in your lifeboat.

    Trina, glad it worked for you both - something has to work out, eh? I'm interested to know if the people who stuck by you during that ghastly time have also been sensitive when it comes to IF...? If they know, of course. I have a theory that sensitivity usually is not limited to one area. Any thoughts?

    I do have fantasies...oh yeah...but the movers are swarming all over the place at the moment so I'll have to indulge them some other time!

21. lagaluga1987
    
    

    Well I feel I have let IF turn me into a different person, I feel that evil sets in sometimes due to my misery and struggle. I am definitely NOT the same person I was before IF, and I know it. I don't like who I've become, but I can't help it and truth be told, I'm proud of myself for surviving.

    How\'s does this sound for payback? My ignorant cousin got very upset when she said she didn't understand why I wouldn't go to a party for her neice (my baby cousin) when there would be other little ones around. I barked back w/hysteria and started screaming how I felt about being around toddlers. She looked crushed and baffled and couldn't comprehend my insane response. My DH said I brutalized her.
    Well guess what? She just failed her first IVF, but has 10 frosties waiting for transfer and barked at me in a text message when I said that I guess FET would be next, and she said, what else would it be? Who the hell are you to bark at me after what I've been through beotch. Then a few days later she leaves me a message asking my advice if she should do a medicated or natural FET. I waited 2 days to reply and then sent her an email telling her to google it and said how would I know, I've never had leftovers, AND SHE KNOWS IT!!! WHAT AN IDIOT. Before she completed the failed cycle she said hopefully god would give her a break. Are you f--king kidding me. I said well after 7 failed IVF's I got no break. I'm sure she will get pregnant w/the frosties, and frankly, it pisses me the f--k off. Why should it be so much easier for her when she is so clueless. I said to her, at least you won't have to pump yourself up w/the drugs anymore.

    Now her sister who has tried to be supportive, but has no idea how to be, who has an almost 2 yr old just told me that after 6 months of sex, she can't get pregnant and is consulting w/a specialist. WELCOME TO MY WORLD GIRLS! She said she can't imagine surviving a cycle. Can you believe it?
    I've never heard her say how impressed she is w/me and what I've lived through and now she can't survive a cycle.

    My new year's resolution was to take care of me and not be there for everyone the way I used to be. Every one always knew if they were in dispair they could turn to me, but you know what? My dispair has been dealt with without any of my family's help. I do have a few friends that try to help, but truth be told, only my fellow IF friends can get me through.
    I'm no longer available the way I used to be. I'm not mentally capable to support others bs, unless of course it's a fellow IF. What do you think of that?

    Af for Celine Dion, is it possible that she sails through each cycle, or could she possibly fess up about the emotional brutality involved w/this bs.

22. salex
    
    

    Trina, glad it worked for you both - something has to work out, eh? I'm interested to know if the people who stuck by you during that ghastly time have also been sensitive when it comes to IF...? If they know, of course. I have a theory that sensitivity usually is not limited to one area. Any thoughts?

    LAKIS-really interesting question. The people best to us during the crisis have been really great to us during this nightmare as well (the ones that know, which are mostly my friends, not DHs). Its funny b/c the person who immediately comes to mind is not even a super-close friend, and has been in and out of my life for the last 13 years. I met her in law school and our paths have crossed a lot in professional circles but we rarely get together. We go through periods of speaking all the time to not speaking for months. She was the absolute best to me right after the financial crisis. She took my resume and was super pushy with her boss and I had an interview in 2 weeks. With respect to IF, she really was there for me in my darkest days. I was unbelievably depressed last summer following the loss of my twins and couldnt get out of my apartment for days. (This might sound really vain), but the first time I left the apartment in weeks was to get my hair straightened (as this was something I obviously didnt during during IVF or the pregnancy). Anyway, the process takes about 5 hours and the place I go is a total dive. She came with me (her idea) and we sat and talked for 5 hours and went for dinner after. It is just so weird that this is not even a person I am in touch with on a daily basis, and as I mentioned we are in and out of each others lives. However, as I am writing this, with tears streaming down my face, I am going to make a concerted effort to make sure she is an important part of my life forever. One of her is better than 100 superficial friendships. LAKIS-thank you for making me think of her, as we have been out of touch for a couple of months and I am definitely going to pick up the phone tomorrow morning.

23. Spartali
    
    

    trina you made me think of my friend. She has been my friend since we were 4 years old - we grew up on the same street, we are two days apart in age, we went to school together from kindergarten through 12th grade. Then after that, we went out separate ways and through the years there are times when we are in touch all the time, and then months and months go by and we are not in touch at all. But we both met our husbands late in life and got married relatively late and then lo and behold discovered that we were both hoping to make babies and ever since then we have been in better touch (relatively speaking) - she had DE twins last year after a hellish struggle, losses, NICU, etc etc and although she has crossed over she is the person I reach out to on my dark days. Don't speak to her for months and then all of a sudden we're on the phone for two hours.

    So I totally understand how you feel about your friend, and why you treasure her.

24. LAKIS
    
    

    Trina, your friend sounds worth her weight in Gonal-F. I don't know why some people get it pretty much instinctively and some people never will, no matter how patiently you try and educate them. Makes you wonder what the first group has been through...

    lagaluga1987, your cousins sound as if they definitely belong to the second group. Ugh. As for what I think of you not being available to support others' bs - good for you. Plenty of a superior class of bs for you here, anyway!

25. Argentou
    
    

    No one is ever too bitter for this board.I second that.

26. Leda
    
    

    trina,
    too bitter? I am so full of **** and vinegar some days that i would be banned for life.
    I can relate to not saying anything when i feel vulnerable but lately now i come out swinging at all times. I just cant handle the BS anymore. I maintain professionalism as work and bite my tongue, but within my personal life i cant.

    canyon,
    well said. I agree people wont get it if you talk or yell, i yell then at the very least they can blame my behaviour on hormones which will bring on a new topic to make them feel small over...maybe i am too bitter.

    princess,
    i bet you i told off the same nurse at cornell...although they have some doozies (sp) over there...

    bctm
    Putting yourself first is the way to go....I think Morrisons words are finally rubbing off on me. As for your cousins..im speechless

    nyc,
    if one more person tells me "You cant understand..." i think i will spontaneously combust.

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